4 ms·

I uncovered an ACPI bug in my Dell Inspiron 5567. It was plaguing me for 8 years

194 points by thunderbong 1y ago

rgreekguy 1y ago
Someone share this with Apple, they have the same bug.
- achandlerwhite 1y ago
  In my experience Apple devices are the only ones that get sleep right.
  - rgreekguy 1y ago
    I don't know, I had my M1 Air reboot once because I had the wild idea to close the lid while it was charging. Usually only one of the two is happening. But a friend that has been around MacBooks for longer told me they do it. Hence my comment.
    - rogerrogerr 1y ago
      Never seen this in my life across five MacBooks. Was this around 2am and you’d previously asked it to do an update “tonight”?
  - kiwijamo 1y ago
    My experience is that even Apple has its issues. The most reliable laptop I've had is my current Lenovo and Sleep works flawlessly in either Windows or Debian. Even my work HP is fine, Windows does sleep/wake flawlessly every time without fail.
  - olyjohn 1y ago
    They used to be better. But all my recent Macs have had some real shitty power management issues. The most annoying thing is when the battery drains fully overnight when it was supposed to be asleep, and then you get the wait 20 minutes before you can even power it up even if you plug in a 120watt charger. There is no excuse to have to wait for the battery to charge before powering up.
- scrubs 1y ago
  I do wonder ... I run ubuntu ocular t2 on a macpro '16... everytime I accidentally close the lid the laptop becomes unresponsive. I have to cycle power which usually then needs a manual fsck before it can boot normally.
altairprime 1y ago
The process for shipping a kernel workaround seems to be documented here, for those motivated to patch these ACPI bugs: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-122145.html https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-122145.html
- CamouflagedKiwi 1y ago
  Wow that takes me back - I went through that maybe 15 years ago to fix something about my laptop at the time. Fortunately haven't needed to since - I assumed that either laptop manufacturers got better at doing this stuff right, or (maybe more likely) Linux got better at interpreting their bugs.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
kosolam 1y ago
I had tons of wierd boot/reboot issues with my old dell precision m4800. It stuck before boot and required voodoo rituals to finally boot successfully into linux or windows. Now it wasn’t used for some years and having installed recently a modern linux it works just fine now, like never before. As if the computer finally fixed itself.
- avhception 1y ago
  Maybe newer kernels patch the DSDT, like discussed in the comments of the blog post.
- db48x 1y ago
  More likely your updated Linux kernel checks for those specific bugs in those specific ACPI tables. If it finds them, it tells the kernel to ignore them and replace them with driver code. And then they actually bothered to test the driver code and make sure that it actually works.
ggm 1y ago
Move one instruction from above to below the IF?
aetherspawn 1y ago
Toshiba Satellite had an infuriating ACPI bug that prevented Linux from reading the battery percentage!
rmu09 1y ago
I remember needing a patch to the DSDT on a Dell latitude x300 for linux to work proberly (~20 years ago?). It was attached to the initrd. IIRC one problem was that the microsoft ACPI table compiler produced code that was illegal under some interpretation of the standard, and the intel tools on linux didn't like that.
pjc50 1y ago
See recently: https://github.com/Zephkek/Asus-ROG-Aml-Deep-Dive https://github.com/Zephkek/Asus-ROG-Aml-Deep-Dive I get the impression that, in hardware companies, software is often not taken very seriously, when it can cripple the user experience for trivial bugs. It's also annoying that it's "proprietary" rather than open source, when hundreds of models will be using the same chipset in the same way. It's not a competitive advantage, the sleep code, it can only be a disadvantage if it's done badly.
- zipy124 1y ago
  and the HN discussion about it here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45271484 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45271484
- Wowfunhappy 1y ago
  Well, if your competitors do it badly and you do it well, it could be a competitive advantage…
  - zokier 1y ago
    We are somewhere between market for lemons and a race to the bottom. It's both difficult to even a tech-savvy person to know if some problem is caused by acpi, and also if some acpi implementation is actually high quality.
    - robotnikman 1y ago
      One of the reasons why my next laptop will probably be a Framework. I got lucky with my current one which has worked flawlessly so far, but who knows if I would be lucky with the next one I buy?
- uncircle 1y ago
  1. Design hardware. 2. Build hardware. 3. Oh, no! The hardware has a bug! We'll somehow fix it in software. And fixes come only if there is an economic reason for doing so. As soon as the company starts developing the next product line, you're on your own.
ur-whale 1y ago
Friends don't let friends run software build by hardware folks.
thedanbob 1y ago
I was trying to help a friend recently with a bizarre issue with a Dell laptop: the 2 key (and only the 2 key) is unreliable. Normally I'd say "hardware problem" but it acted more like a software bug. Among other signs, it's unreliable in Windows and the BIOS but not in Linux. Unfortunately, I don't have the skills to even diagnose the problem, let alone fix it. And my friend isn't willing to put Linux on it since he wants to sell it.
jofla_net 1y ago
Seems par for the course with Dell lately. My XPS has a Wifi+ACPI firmware bug, wherein when the wifi says, hey can i go into power save mode, and the ACPI grabs its ankles, kernel panic! For years I thought It was a linux thing but after stumbling on the motherload of complaints im saddened. Its been my first linux laptop and its sad to see that the shortcommings had nothing to do with distro, rather hardware regression. Theres no plans to fix either. Luckly it happens maybe twice a year. https://www.dell.com/community/en/conversations/xps/xps-15-9500-plugged-in-but-will-not-recognize-it-is-charging/647f9496f4ccf8a8de6e4213 https://www.dell.com/community/en/conversations/xps/xps-15-9... https://www.dell.com/community/en/conversations/xps/xps-15-9500-random-restart-no-charge/664396cf3a00f45897890270?page=5 https://www.dell.com/community/en/conversations/xps/xps-15-9...
- junto 1y ago
  It’s pretty much the same on windows. It’s not an ideal workaround but I recently turned of C-states in the BIOS and since I’m always plugged in anyway, it seems to have stabilized a bit. It seems to be connected with the WIFI card and the machine going to sleep. People have had their entire motherboards replaced and it hasn’t solved the problem. It’s annoying because I spent a lot of money on my XPS and it’s basically junk.

194 points by thunderbong 1y ago

rgreekguy 1y ago

Someone share this with Apple, they have the same bug.

achandlerwhite 1y ago
In my experience Apple devices are the only ones that get sleep right.
- rgreekguy 1y ago
  I don't know, I had my M1 Air reboot once because I had the wild idea to close the lid while it was charging. Usually only one of the two is happening. But a friend that has been around MacBooks for longer told me they do it. Hence my comment.
  - rogerrogerr 1y ago
    Never seen this in my life across five MacBooks. Was this around 2am and you’d previously asked it to do an update “tonight”?
- kiwijamo 1y ago
  My experience is that even Apple has its issues. The most reliable laptop I've had is my current Lenovo and Sleep works flawlessly in either Windows or Debian. Even my work HP is fine, Windows does sleep/wake flawlessly every time without fail.
- olyjohn 1y ago
  They used to be better. But all my recent Macs have had some real shitty power management issues. The most annoying thing is when the battery drains fully overnight when it was supposed to be asleep, and then you get the wait 20 minutes before you can even power it up even if you plug in a 120watt charger. There is no excuse to have to wait for the battery to charge before powering up.
scrubs 1y ago
I do wonder ... I run ubuntu ocular t2 on a macpro '16... everytime I accidentally close the lid the laptop becomes unresponsive. I have to cycle power which usually then needs a manual fsck before it can boot normally.

altairprime 1y ago

The process for shipping a kernel workaround seems to be documented here, for those motivated to patch these ACPI bugs: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-122145.html https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-122145.html

CamouflagedKiwi 1y ago
Wow that takes me back - I went through that maybe 15 years ago to fix something about my laptop at the time. Fortunately haven't needed to since - I assumed that either laptop manufacturers got better at doing this stuff right, or (maybe more likely) Linux got better at interpreting their bugs.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

kosolam 1y ago

I had tons of wierd boot/reboot issues with my old dell precision m4800. It stuck before boot and required voodoo rituals to finally boot successfully into linux or windows. Now it wasn’t used for some years and having installed recently a modern linux it works just fine now, like never before. As if the computer finally fixed itself.

avhception 1y ago
Maybe newer kernels patch the DSDT, like discussed in the comments of the blog post.
db48x 1y ago
More likely your updated Linux kernel checks for those specific bugs in those specific ACPI tables. If it finds them, it tells the kernel to ignore them and replace them with driver code. And then they actually bothered to test the driver code and make sure that it actually works.

ggm 1y ago

Move one instruction from above to below the IF?

aetherspawn 1y ago

Toshiba Satellite had an infuriating ACPI bug that prevented Linux from reading the battery percentage!

rmu09 1y ago

I remember needing a patch to the DSDT on a Dell latitude x300 for linux to work proberly (~20 years ago?). It was attached to the initrd. IIRC one problem was that the microsoft ACPI table compiler produced code that was illegal under some interpretation of the standard, and the intel tools on linux didn't like that.

pjc50 1y ago

See recently: https://github.com/Zephkek/Asus-ROG-Aml-Deep-Dive https://github.com/Zephkek/Asus-ROG-Aml-Deep-Dive I get the impression that, in hardware companies, software is often not taken very seriously, when it can cripple the user experience for trivial bugs. It's also annoying that it's "proprietary" rather than open source, when hundreds of models will be using the same chipset in the same way. It's not a competitive advantage, the sleep code, it can only be a disadvantage if it's done badly.

zipy124 1y ago
and the HN discussion about it here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45271484 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45271484
Wowfunhappy 1y ago
Well, if your competitors do it badly and you do it well, it could be a competitive advantage…
- zokier 1y ago
  We are somewhere between market for lemons and a race to the bottom. It's both difficult to even a tech-savvy person to know if some problem is caused by acpi, and also if some acpi implementation is actually high quality.
  - robotnikman 1y ago
    One of the reasons why my next laptop will probably be a Framework. I got lucky with my current one which has worked flawlessly so far, but who knows if I would be lucky with the next one I buy?
uncircle 1y ago
1. Design hardware. 2. Build hardware. 3. Oh, no! The hardware has a bug! We'll somehow fix it in software. And fixes come only if there is an economic reason for doing so. As soon as the company starts developing the next product line, you're on your own.

ur-whale 1y ago

Friends don't let friends run software build by hardware folks.

thedanbob 1y ago

I was trying to help a friend recently with a bizarre issue with a Dell laptop: the 2 key (and only the 2 key) is unreliable. Normally I'd say "hardware problem" but it acted more like a software bug. Among other signs, it's unreliable in Windows and the BIOS but not in Linux. Unfortunately, I don't have the skills to even diagnose the problem, let alone fix it. And my friend isn't willing to put Linux on it since he wants to sell it.

jofla_net 1y ago

Seems par for the course with Dell lately. My XPS has a Wifi+ACPI firmware bug, wherein when the wifi says, hey can i go into power save mode, and the ACPI grabs its ankles, kernel panic! For years I thought It was a linux thing but after stumbling on the motherload of complaints im saddened. Its been my first linux laptop and its sad to see that the shortcommings had nothing to do with distro, rather hardware regression. Theres no plans to fix either. Luckly it happens maybe twice a year. https://www.dell.com/community/en/conversations/xps/xps-15-9500-plugged-in-but-will-not-recognize-it-is-charging/647f9496f4ccf8a8de6e4213 https://www.dell.com/community/en/conversations/xps/xps-15-9... https://www.dell.com/community/en/conversations/xps/xps-15-9500-random-restart-no-charge/664396cf3a00f45897890270?page=5 https://www.dell.com/community/en/conversations/xps/xps-15-9...

junto 1y ago
It’s pretty much the same on windows. It’s not an ideal workaround but I recently turned of C-states in the BIOS and since I’m always plugged in anyway, it seems to have stabilized a bit. It seems to be connected with the WIFI card and the machine going to sleep. People have had their entire motherboards replaced and it hasn’t solved the problem. It’s annoying because I spent a lot of money on my XPS and it’s basically junk.