5 ms·

Unix and Beyond: An Interview with Ken Thompson

51 points by luriel 14y ago

mseepgood 14y ago
May 1999. Not exactly news. Chances are high that we already read it 13 years ago. I'd be more interested in an interview about the things that he worked on more recently, such as the Go language, or what he's planning to do on this winter vacation.
- damian2000 14y ago
  Have you seen this one from 2011? http://www.drdobbs.com/open-source/interview-with-ken-thompson/229502480 http://www.drdobbs.com/open-source/interview-with-ken-thomps...
  - mseepgood 14y ago
    Thanks for the link. Here's a video from 2012 starring him: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sln-gJaURzk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sln-gJaURzk Not an interview, but he sometimes says a sentence.
billyjobob 14y ago
Thompson: I view Linux as something that's not Microsoft—a backlash against Microsoft, no more and no less. I don't think it will be very successful in the long run. I've looked at the source and there are pieces that are good and pieces that are not. A whole bunch of random people have contributed to this source, and the quality varies drastically. My experience and some of my friends' experience is that Linux is quite unreliable. Microsoft is really unreliable but Linux is worse. In a non-PC environment, it just won't hold up. If you're using it on a single box, that's one thing. But if you want to use Linux in firewalls, gateways, embedded systems, and so on, it has a long way to go.
- gits1225 14y ago
  "My experience and some of my friends' experience is that Linux is quite unreliable." I don't think any software is "reliable". Well tested/battle hardened? Yes. Reliable? No.
  - drats 14y ago
    This is the kind of ridiculous statement that comes from Slashdot. Yes for a Mars rover or medical device we might want some insane level of reliability. But reliable enough for Google, IBM and Amazon and thousands of other companies is enough to take the title "reliable operating system", the rest is just playing semantics.
- ibotty 14y ago
  have you used linux in '99?? i did. it was pleasurable but in a certain academic or toy sense (if i had to be productive back then i might even have been prodcutive but not everything worked and it was surely missing many reliabilities). it did go a long way and it is now at a point what thompson would not attribute to it back then. he would surely conclude differently now.
- batista 14y ago
  >My experience and some of my friends' experience is that Linux is quite unreliable. Microsoft is really unreliable but Linux is worse. In a non-PC environment, it just won't hold up. If you're using it on a single box, that's one thing. But if you want to use Linux in firewalls, gateways, embedded systems, and so on, it has a long way to go. Huh? Linux _IS_ used in servers, embedded devices, gateways, firewalls, cellphones, what have you... What exactly is "unreliable" about it, except a very vague accusation?
  - SG- 14y ago
    in 1999 Linux wasn't really used for big production, but sometime around then the .com/linux bubble happened with a lot of companies selling/using linux as their main product (VALinux/Akamai/Redhat/many others).
  - eckyptang 14y ago
    I was still using Sun/Solaris machines back in '99 when this was written, which were considerably more reliable from an every day use perspective. Most of the negative comments and opinion came from people who'd worked with industrial grade kit and moved to cheap PCs with Linux on. To be honest, if you go back that far, Windows NT 4 on Compaq Professional Workstations was probably the most reliable thing out there believe it or not so I'm not sure where the hell these comments came from.
additive 14y ago
This is one of my favourites. So many nuggets in there. A very nice interview. Programmers like Thompson are the only thing that keeps me interested in computers. It's really sad that the loudest voices in computing are no longer thinkers like Ken Thompson. Look at some of comments in this thread. Pathetic. It's like Slashdotters insulting W. Richard Stevens after his passing. Extreme stupidity. How many programmers these days can build from the bottom up? How many can start with a blank canvas? It's a little troubling to me that he has to work for Google (as much as I love GOOG their work is not exactly stuff of Bell Labs: how can we serve more ads?), but I guess you have to do what you have to do. The comments about his music collection are great. "Illegal downloading!" :) The legal department just looked the other way. He also more or less says, in this field, there are really no new ideas. This is hard for today's programmers to accept I guess: the idea it's all been done before. But oh how I wish today's self-proclaimed "productive" programmers - who are alamringly ignorant of history and even contemptuous toward any code does not meet their strange notions of "freshness" - how I wish they would take Thompson's comments to heart. Now, here's a question: How similar is Go to Sean Dorward's Limbo? If we put them side-by-side how many similarities would we see? If no one answers, I may just do this myself. I think it would be interesting.
- qbrass 14y ago
  If you do compare Limbo to Go, compare them to Alef as well.
  - additive 14y ago
    Hypothesis: Limbo --> Alef --> Go? Is this wrong?
    - mseepgood 14y ago
      Probably Alef -> Limbo -> Go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6kdp27TYZs&3m45s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6kdp27TYZs&3m45s
- zem 14y ago
  > It's a little troubling to me that he has to work for Google (as much as I love GOOG their work is not exactly stuff of Bell Labs: how can we serve more ads?) google has some very interesting systems problems to be solved that are almost entirely divorced from the fact that the monetary goal is serving ads, or even that the core goal is organising the world's information. the company is seriously attempting to push the boundaries of "how can we make large clusters of people, machines and networks more efficient and productive", and thompson's work on go is squarely in that realm. (disclaimer: i work for google, but i was a fan of that aspect of the company long before i joined)

51 points by luriel 14y ago

May 1999. Not exactly news. Chances are high that we already read it 13 years ago. I'd be more interested in an interview about the things that he worked on more recently, such as the Go language, or what he's planning to do on this winter vacation.

damian2000 14y ago
Have you seen this one from 2011? http://www.drdobbs.com/open-source/interview-with-ken-thompson/229502480 http://www.drdobbs.com/open-source/interview-with-ken-thomps...
- mseepgood 14y ago
  Thanks for the link. Here's a video from 2012 starring him: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sln-gJaURzk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sln-gJaURzk Not an interview, but he sometimes says a sentence.

billyjobob 14y ago

Thompson: I view Linux as something that's not Microsoft—a backlash against Microsoft, no more and no less. I don't think it will be very successful in the long run. I've looked at the source and there are pieces that are good and pieces that are not. A whole bunch of random people have contributed to this source, and the quality varies drastically. My experience and some of my friends' experience is that Linux is quite unreliable. Microsoft is really unreliable but Linux is worse. In a non-PC environment, it just won't hold up. If you're using it on a single box, that's one thing. But if you want to use Linux in firewalls, gateways, embedded systems, and so on, it has a long way to go.

gits1225 14y ago
"My experience and some of my friends' experience is that Linux is quite unreliable." I don't think any software is "reliable". Well tested/battle hardened? Yes. Reliable? No.
- drats 14y ago
  This is the kind of ridiculous statement that comes from Slashdot. Yes for a Mars rover or medical device we might want some insane level of reliability. But reliable enough for Google, IBM and Amazon and thousands of other companies is enough to take the title "reliable operating system", the rest is just playing semantics.
ibotty 14y ago
have you used linux in '99?? i did. it was pleasurable but in a certain academic or toy sense (if i had to be productive back then i might even have been prodcutive but not everything worked and it was surely missing many reliabilities). it did go a long way and it is now at a point what thompson would not attribute to it back then. he would surely conclude differently now.
batista 14y ago
>My experience and some of my friends' experience is that Linux is quite unreliable. Microsoft is really unreliable but Linux is worse. In a non-PC environment, it just won't hold up. If you're using it on a single box, that's one thing. But if you want to use Linux in firewalls, gateways, embedded systems, and so on, it has a long way to go. Huh? Linux _IS_ used in servers, embedded devices, gateways, firewalls, cellphones, what have you... What exactly is "unreliable" about it, except a very vague accusation?
- SG- 14y ago
  in 1999 Linux wasn't really used for big production, but sometime around then the .com/linux bubble happened with a lot of companies selling/using linux as their main product (VALinux/Akamai/Redhat/many others).
- eckyptang 14y ago
  I was still using Sun/Solaris machines back in '99 when this was written, which were considerably more reliable from an every day use perspective. Most of the negative comments and opinion came from people who'd worked with industrial grade kit and moved to cheap PCs with Linux on. To be honest, if you go back that far, Windows NT 4 on Compaq Professional Workstations was probably the most reliable thing out there believe it or not so I'm not sure where the hell these comments came from.

additive 14y ago

This is one of my favourites. So many nuggets in there. A very nice interview. Programmers like Thompson are the only thing that keeps me interested in computers. It's really sad that the loudest voices in computing are no longer thinkers like Ken Thompson. Look at some of comments in this thread. Pathetic. It's like Slashdotters insulting W. Richard Stevens after his passing. Extreme stupidity. How many programmers these days can build from the bottom up? How many can start with a blank canvas? It's a little troubling to me that he has to work for Google (as much as I love GOOG their work is not exactly stuff of Bell Labs: how can we serve more ads?), but I guess you have to do what you have to do. The comments about his music collection are great. "Illegal downloading!" :) The legal department just looked the other way. He also more or less says, in this field, there are really no new ideas. This is hard for today's programmers to accept I guess: the idea it's all been done before. But oh how I wish today's self-proclaimed "productive" programmers - who are alamringly ignorant of history and even contemptuous toward any code does not meet their strange notions of "freshness" - how I wish they would take Thompson's comments to heart. Now, here's a question: How similar is Go to Sean Dorward's Limbo? If we put them side-by-side how many similarities would we see? If no one answers, I may just do this myself. I think it would be interesting.

qbrass 14y ago
If you do compare Limbo to Go, compare them to Alef as well.
- additive 14y ago
  Hypothesis: Limbo --> Alef --> Go? Is this wrong?
  - mseepgood 14y ago
    Probably Alef -> Limbo -> Go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6kdp27TYZs&3m45s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6kdp27TYZs&3m45s
zem 14y ago
> It's a little troubling to me that he has to work for Google (as much as I love GOOG their work is not exactly stuff of Bell Labs: how can we serve more ads?) google has some very interesting systems problems to be solved that are almost entirely divorced from the fact that the monetary goal is serving ads, or even that the core goal is organising the world's information. the company is seriously attempting to push the boundaries of "how can we make large clusters of people, machines and networks more efficient and productive", and thompson's work on go is squarely in that realm. (disclaimer: i work for google, but i was a fan of that aspect of the company long before i joined)