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I think you're oversimplifying. I absolutely oppose the genocide. I also support Israel's right to exist. These are different topics.

mirzap 1y ago
Israel was formed on violence, just like this. Even more brutal, if you read the history books. Why do you support country founded on so much hate and violence? First prime ministers of Israel were well known terrorists.
- peterashford 1y ago
  I don't disagree with you about the history of Israel. I don't believe the state of Israel should have been created in the first place. Not because I'm opposed to the idea of a Jewish homeland, but because I'm opposed to the idea of colonisation (I say this as a pakeha (white) New Zealander who's ancestors colonised NZ). But at this point, Israel exists. People have been born and died there. Its people's homes. Just as I rail against Israel causing forced displacement of Palestinans - a crime against humanity - I will not call for the same crime to be visited on Israelis. Both peoples exist, have rights and deserve to exist in peace. Currently, Palestinians are treated as subhumans by the state of Israel and that has to stop, but none of that means that we shouldn't support Israel's right to exist. The alternative is to visit upon them the very same despicable crimes we criticise them for committing.
  - mirzap 1y ago
    It is the same argument as with apartheid South Africa; I don't buy it. Even today, 80y after WW2, jews are (rightfully) fighting to return their real estate, etc confiscated during the war. Those exchanged multiple owners, but ultimately get returned to their rightful owners. A stolen house is still a stolen house, no matter if generations or two were born there. I'm pretty sure everyone here agrees that Israel can not exist on its own. Even with its nuclear capabilities, it's very small country and vulnerable. What do you think a war with Hamas or Iran would last if they don't receive daily shipments of weapons from allies, mainly the US? It's fully dependent on its Western allies; like any other colony, it will eventually collapse when money finally runs out.
    - peterashford 1y ago
      Really not sure what point you're making at this point

mirzap 1y ago

Israel was formed on violence, just like this. Even more brutal, if you read the history books. Why do you support country founded on so much hate and violence? First prime ministers of Israel were well known terrorists.

peterashford 1y ago
I don't disagree with you about the history of Israel. I don't believe the state of Israel should have been created in the first place. Not because I'm opposed to the idea of a Jewish homeland, but because I'm opposed to the idea of colonisation (I say this as a pakeha (white) New Zealander who's ancestors colonised NZ). But at this point, Israel exists. People have been born and died there. Its people's homes. Just as I rail against Israel causing forced displacement of Palestinans - a crime against humanity - I will not call for the same crime to be visited on Israelis. Both peoples exist, have rights and deserve to exist in peace. Currently, Palestinians are treated as subhumans by the state of Israel and that has to stop, but none of that means that we shouldn't support Israel's right to exist. The alternative is to visit upon them the very same despicable crimes we criticise them for committing.
- mirzap 1y ago
  It is the same argument as with apartheid South Africa; I don't buy it. Even today, 80y after WW2, jews are (rightfully) fighting to return their real estate, etc confiscated during the war. Those exchanged multiple owners, but ultimately get returned to their rightful owners. A stolen house is still a stolen house, no matter if generations or two were born there. I'm pretty sure everyone here agrees that Israel can not exist on its own. Even with its nuclear capabilities, it's very small country and vulnerable. What do you think a war with Hamas or Iran would last if they don't receive daily shipments of weapons from allies, mainly the US? It's fully dependent on its Western allies; like any other colony, it will eventually collapse when money finally runs out.
  - peterashford 1y ago
    Really not sure what point you're making at this point