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Trump designates anti-fascist Antifa movement as a terrorist organization
- hypeatei 1y agoI'm not sure you could consider Antifa an "organization" even in its prime ~5 years ago. Is anyone protesting fascism going to fall under this umbrella?
- CodingJeebus 1y ago> Is anyone protesting fascism going to fall under this umbrella? That is correct.
- kccoder 1y agoThat’s a feature for them. Are you against fascism? Congrats, your rights have been reduced. Pray they don’t reduce them further. And with the neutering of lower courts to impose nationwide injunctions, they’ll get pretty far before we get a final judicial ruling, likely on the shadow docket.
- suzdude 1y agoIt's disappointing my grandfather, a WWII veteran, is now considered a terrorist.
- mytailorisrich 1y ago[flagged]
- ajross 1y agoSee... that's the scam. You have in your mind a "They" that doesn't actually correspond to real people. Seriously: name the three "most wanted" antifa offenders you want to see jailed under this order. Can you name even one person that you think qualifies? Don't you think that's a little suspicious? What this order is actually going to be used for is to indiscriminately jail protestors of any kind. And the point of that is to eliminate protest in general. Sure sure, you're imagining buildings on fire and the arsonists in chains. But what this is really designed to prevent is the March on Washington.
- mytailorisrich 1y agoYou dismissing my matter-of-fact comment as "scam" somewhat proves the point... Or you don't not know what antifa are...
- mytailorisrich 1y agoOn the other hand, I see that my original comment has been downvoted and flagged, which definitely proves the point about extremism and the reality of antifa.
- ajross 1y agoI note you didn't answer my question, though. And also that you replied to just one word ("scam") and not the substance of the point.
- CodingJeebus 1y agoThis, alongside the cancelling of Jimmy Kimmel today, raises all kinds of red flags. We're about to find out just how well the First Amendment holds up under an autocrat.
- billy99k 1y ago[flagged]
- CodingJeebus 1y ago> J6 protestors that just showed up and were let in by police, arrested in front of their friends and families and sent to prison for years J6'ers ransacked the Capitol building and killed a cop, we all watched it unfold live on TV. I'd love to read more on the debanking thing, I can't find anything that materially supports the claim that lots of people are being debanked for their political views. > the government colluding with major social media companies to censor American citizens on anything that changes the government narrative This is exactly what is happening right now with broadcasters and with those speaking out about Kirk. Trump and Kimmel have feuded for years. Why do you see this situation as justified (i.e. "Speech has consequences"), but when it's social media, you see big bad government suppressing speech illegally? It's like we just tolerate it when it's our party in charge, otherwise we ignore it. I have no idea where that path leads us, but I can't fathom it's good.
- AnimalMuppet 1y agoJ6ers didn't just ransack the building and kill a cop. Some of them were shouting "hang Mike Pence". Why were they shouting that? Because Pence wouldn't recognize the "alternate electors" as legitimate. That is, they (at least some of them) were literally protesting that Pence wouldn't cooperate with a scheme to steal the election. And they were breaking into the building where Mike Pence was, and where the Electoral College vote was. That - and not merely breaking into the building and doing vandalism - is the fundamental issue with J6.
- billy99k 1y ago
- Telaneo 1y agoIs Antifa even relevant anymore? I haven't heard any news about them since before COVID. What sparked this now?
- mycall 1y agoWhat is the opposite of Antifa? Have you heard that word a lot lately? What does Trump support?
- Telaneo 1y agoI am aware of the current US administration. But what's the point in denouncing an organisation which barely even exists today (as far as I can tell)? I don't see them denouncing the Communist Party USA, but I would see about as much point in that as in this.
- defrost 1y agoIt's a constant part of history wrt autocracy and securing power. If, for example, I call you out for being a fascist (or even falsely accuse you of such) then I must be anti fascist and therefore a terrorist, an enemy of the state, someone that can be seized from the streets and cast into a black hole somewhere. The particulars don't matter, be it Red Scare (and under the bed), Yellow Peril, Anti-Fa, et al. the playbook is familiar.
- Telaneo 1y agoAs if they needed more reasons to be authoritarian. They seem to be able to be that just fine without this, but I guess even they need some sort of reasoning, however flimsy, and more options to pick from probably does help them achieve their goals.
- rolph 1y agogive the people something to hate, to fear, and lay the blame on that which must be removed.
- 1y ago
- SilverElfin 1y ago[flagged]
- nis0s 1y agoThe problems with antifa are not new https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/643168/amid-portland-riots-dhs-investigates-link-between-antifa-and-syrian-fighters/ https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/643168/amid-portland...
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- _DeadFred_ 1y agoIn the USA you can't declare domestic organization terrorists. This is to prevent the government from weaponizing such declarations against political opponents. You might want to understand our government, laws, and political protections before cheering on something like this. FYI the United State just starting extra judicially using the US military to execute people on random boats in the name of fighting terrorist organizations. And now you are cheering them on taking steps to have the same authority they claim allows them to do that on US soil?
- ThrowMeAway1618 1y ago>This is to prevent the government from weaponizing such declarations against political opponents. Yeah, but that's exactly what GP wants. A such, they're going to continue to argue for it as if it were a valid argument. Repeat the same lie enough times and some folks will begin to believe it. You're trying to argue in good faith with a bad-faith interlocutor.
- logicalmind 1y agoYou're not wrong, but the same can be said for some militia groups and religious organizations. I think the problem people have is the selective use of this weapon to specifically target certain organizations and not others. It's hard to justify that antifa is a problem and the people behind January 6th weren't. People were convicted of crimes and then pardoned. As long as we define what constitutes a terrorist organization and it is equally applied to all groups, I think a lot fewer people would have a problem with it. I know I would.
- 737282251819 1y ago[dead]
- jonahbenton 1y agoAntifa is a meme, not an organization, you say. And now you see: that is the point.
- SilverElfin 1y agoIt’s an organization. Decentralization doesn’t change that.
- Braxton1980 1y agoWhat makes it an organization?
- scarecrowbob 1y agoI mean, I have a t-shirt and anarchists sometimes call me to wear a hi viz vest and hold a walkie talkie during demonstrations. There is "organization" but it's certainly not -an- organization. Anybody that says there is doesn't know what they are talking about.
- Braxton1980 1y ago>Anybody that says there is doesn't know what they are talking about. So people who disagree with you and attempt to provide counter arguments are stupid?
- fragilerock 1y agoIf someone said "The earth is round and anybody who says it isn't doesn't know what they are talking about" would you still challenge their intellectual honesty in this way?
- Braxton1980 1y agoI would question their debate ability
- gcau 1y agoI'm not sure if they meet the requirements for being a terrorist group or if I agree with them being considered terrorists, but I just want to point out the name of the organisation isn't a valid argument in favour of them, the actions of the organisation matter a lot more than the name, for example on many occasions they've used violence to prevent people from political speech (is that antifascism or fascism?)
- blurbleblurble 1y agoIt's not an organization, it's a grass roots movement. However, I agree with you in a sense, in that movements with names are inherently vulnerable to cooptation and suppression.
- _DeadFred_ 1y agoIn the United States the terrorist designation process is legally limited to foreign organizations and not allowed for domestic ones because there is a fear that allowing that could be weaponized against Americans or political foes.
- perihelions 1y agoThis is technically correct (the worst kind of correct, in an ideologically-motivated thread people flock to seek emotionally-validating facts. As opposed to regular ones). Reuters OP: "It was not clear what legal weight Trump's proclamation carried... legal experts said such a step lacked a basis in law" See also: https://www.voanews.com/a/usa_why-domestic-terrorism-not-specifically-designated-crime-us/6201836.html https://www.voanews.com/a/usa_why-domestic-terrorism-not-spe... ("Why Domestic Terrorism Is Not Specifically Designated a Crime in US") > "While U.S. law makes it a crime to provide “material support” to a foreign terrorist organization, there is no comparable law that makes domestic terrorism a federal crime, even though individual acts committed by domestic terrorists may be illegal."
- _DeadFred_ 1y agoHuh? This is just plain correct correct. Which is the normal kind of correct. If you break laws and conduct terrorism then yeah, breaking the law is illegal. Because breaking the law is illegal. Does not change anything I wrote or make what I wrote 'technically correct'. The United States military now extrajudicially just executes people the President designates to die claiming they are 'drug terrorists'. There is no US mechanism for him to flag American organizations in this manner (currently). Probably again, the worst kind of correct thing for me to say.
- perihelions 1y agoI poorly expressed the sentiment that you very correctly described the law, as it exists; and that people did not want to hear it (as seen by your numerous downvotes).
- bediger4000 1y agoI thought that there really wasn't an "Antifa" as such, that anyone could call themselves or their organization "Antifa". But if there is an "Antifa", and it's made up of US citizens, under what law are they terrorists? Again, I may be misinformed, but I had understood "terrorist" as a legal designation was for non-US-citizens.
- antibull 1y ago[dead]
- matsemann 1y agoWhere was the people of HN when all this went down? [flagged] On the wrong side of history..
- Herring 1y agoI think it's not just HN. There's a lot of gaslighting and denial when it comes to American politics, specifically the real-world version versus the Hollywood version.
- duxup 1y agoIs there even a larger "organization"? The little actual info I know on "antifa" is they were just small groups who share some ideology and protest ... and most of those people aren't active doing much at all, let alone anything objectionable. As far as the right wing media stories they tell, that is a fairy tale that does not exist.
- baby 1y agoWhy is this flagged?