7 ms·

I've seen a large number of comments online saying the shooter was a trump supporter - I don't really understand where that information comes from. I feel like

I've seen a large number of comments online saying the shooter was a trump supporter - I don't really understand where that information comes from. I feel like this is the sort of thing a prediction market might be able sort out.

seanw444 1y ago
[flagged]
- andrewchambers 1y ago
  My point isn't really about what is correct or incorrect in this case. My point is about making it so that you have to actively risk money to push the truth needle in the wrong direction.
  - otterley 1y ago
    Or the right direction, depending on your point of view.
- ceejayoz 1y ago
  Confused politics isn’t all that unusual; look at Caitlyn Jenner for a concrete example. Add in the usual bad blood between well-armed groups and it certainly happens. I wish everyone would wait a week for actual reliable info to come out. I wish we weren’t getting a bunch of said info from deeply partisan and untrustworthy fuckwits. Neither end result would shock me.
  - throwacct 1y ago
    According to the latest iteration, his right-wing family said he was left-wing and even neighbors saw him with his roommate. Freedom of speech is protected. That people are celebrating a man's death, and worse yet, justifying it, is evil but still protected. But what's not protected is the consequences of these actions. I don't want to live, work, etc... next to someone who thinks that it's ok to commit acts of violence against others just because we don't share the same views.
    - ceejayoz 1y ago
      > But what's not protected is the consequences of these actions. But this is protected in this case. I can unfriend you on Facebook for saying “I’m not sad he’s dead”. (And to be clear, Kimmel didn’t even go that far.) I can kick you out of my birthday party. I can complain to your employer. They can fire you. (They can fire you for having tattoos, or red hair!) But the government cannot do these things. That is the entire point of the First Amendment. The FCC can not threaten the license of a broadcaster for protected speech, but we are here anyways.
      - throwacct 1y ago
        The entire point of the 1st Amendment is to protect the citizens from being thrown in jail or being prosecuted for speaking against the government. Where do you see that here? The FCC chairman just said that "...broadcasters are entirely different than people that use other forms of communication. They have a license granted by is at the FCC, and that comes with it an obligation to operate in the public interest".
        pseudalopex 1y ago
        > The entire point of the 1st Amendment is to protect the citizens from being thrown in jail or being prosecuted for speaking against the government. "[g]overnment officials cannot attempt to coerce private parties in order to punish or suppress views that the government disfavors"[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rifle_Association_of_America_v._Vullo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rifle_Association_of_...
      - rattlesnakedave 1y ago
        There is no First Amendment right to an FCC broadcast license.
        ceejayoz 1y ago
        There is a right not to have it taken away for speech reasons.
  - barney54 1y ago
    [flagged]
- halfmatthalfcat 1y ago
  Are you saying there are no conservatives who are attracted to those who identify as trans? Not too long ago you could say the same thing about being conservative and being attracted to the same sex, yet that isn't something be bat an eye at anymore.
  - seanw444 1y ago
    I'm saying it's incredibly unlikely.
    - ceejayoz 1y ago
      It's not. https://lawsuit.org/general-law/republicans-have-an-obsession-with-transgender-pornography/ https://lawsuit.org/general-law/republicans-have-an-obsessio... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caitlyn_Jenner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caitlyn_Jenner Being trans (or being attracted to a trans person) is one of many aspects of that person. Other political positions may outweigh it, and the taboo nature of it may be an appeal (see also: stepsibling roleplay porn).
- krisboyz781 1y ago
  Ahhh yes, whose entire family is maga and lives in the most conservative state in America
  - seanw444 1y ago
    What if I told you I live in the same state, and I know several people of the same age who completely ideologically oppose their MAGA family?
- cloverich 1y ago
  My bias in these cases is that the simplest answer, same as any mass shooting, is that the killers motivations are a manifestation of mental illness and nothing more. Not always true but typically so; wasnt the trump would be assassin not left for instance? When i was told that i wasnt surprised, not because i think it was more likely of someone on the right, but because i think its mostly random. Eg we have a gun culture, a toxic culture, and a lack of mental health institutions culture. That will only ever produce (among other things) a consistent stream of random acts of violence. In this particular case i am a little more curious than usual to find out if that holds up here if only because the narrative was so immediately anti left attacks.
  - barney54 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - tootie 1y ago
    Just look at the guy who shot Trump's ear. He had no discernable motive or explicit political leaning at all. And had supposedly been tracking both Trump and Biden. He just did it for attention.
suzdude 1y ago
There are multiple statements from his relatives that his family are "MAGA", his parents are Registered Republicans. https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/crime/tyler-robinson-family-republican-b2825943.html https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/crime/ty... It seems he was "raised right", with easy access to firearms and ammunition. Items not nearly as common in left voting urban areas. However, Mr. Kimmel's comments centered on the fact that his political leanings, and reasoning for the school shooting are not entirely clear.
- barney54 1y ago
  The reasoning for the shooting is pretty clear. He told his transgender lover that “I had enough of his [Kirk’s] hatred. Some hate can’t be negotiated out.” https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/26098852-tyler-robinson-indictment/ https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/26098852-tyler-robin...
  - suzdude 1y ago
    No, that's the reason to hate Kirk, not a reason to shoot him. What in his upbringing led him to believe the way to handle the situation was with violence is unclear.
    - ars 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - suzdude 1y ago
        The school shooting that Mr. Kirk lost his life to is not, "left wing violence". Unless you want to submit that most school shootings are "right wing violence" if the shooter hated public education.
      - vjjsejj 1y ago
        Certainly not more creative compared to painting someone who openly supports school shootings as some sort of a martyr.

seanw444 1y ago

[flagged]

andrewchambers 1y ago
My point isn't really about what is correct or incorrect in this case. My point is about making it so that you have to actively risk money to push the truth needle in the wrong direction.
- otterley 1y ago
  Or the right direction, depending on your point of view.
ceejayoz 1y ago
Confused politics isn’t all that unusual; look at Caitlyn Jenner for a concrete example. Add in the usual bad blood between well-armed groups and it certainly happens. I wish everyone would wait a week for actual reliable info to come out. I wish we weren’t getting a bunch of said info from deeply partisan and untrustworthy fuckwits. Neither end result would shock me.
- throwacct 1y ago
  According to the latest iteration, his right-wing family said he was left-wing and even neighbors saw him with his roommate. Freedom of speech is protected. That people are celebrating a man's death, and worse yet, justifying it, is evil but still protected. But what's not protected is the consequences of these actions. I don't want to live, work, etc... next to someone who thinks that it's ok to commit acts of violence against others just because we don't share the same views.
  - ceejayoz 1y ago
    > But what's not protected is the consequences of these actions. But this is protected in this case. I can unfriend you on Facebook for saying “I’m not sad he’s dead”. (And to be clear, Kimmel didn’t even go that far.) I can kick you out of my birthday party. I can complain to your employer. They can fire you. (They can fire you for having tattoos, or red hair!) But the government cannot do these things. That is the entire point of the First Amendment. The FCC can not threaten the license of a broadcaster for protected speech, but we are here anyways.
    - throwacct 1y ago
      The entire point of the 1st Amendment is to protect the citizens from being thrown in jail or being prosecuted for speaking against the government. Where do you see that here? The FCC chairman just said that "...broadcasters are entirely different than people that use other forms of communication. They have a license granted by is at the FCC, and that comes with it an obligation to operate in the public interest".
      - pseudalopex 1y ago
        > The entire point of the 1st Amendment is to protect the citizens from being thrown in jail or being prosecuted for speaking against the government. "[g]overnment officials cannot attempt to coerce private parties in order to punish or suppress views that the government disfavors"[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rifle_Association_of_America_v._Vullo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rifle_Association_of_...
    - rattlesnakedave 1y ago
      There is no First Amendment right to an FCC broadcast license.
      - ceejayoz 1y ago
        There is a right not to have it taken away for speech reasons.
- barney54 1y ago
  [flagged]
halfmatthalfcat 1y ago
Are you saying there are no conservatives who are attracted to those who identify as trans? Not too long ago you could say the same thing about being conservative and being attracted to the same sex, yet that isn't something be bat an eye at anymore.
- seanw444 1y ago
  I'm saying it's incredibly unlikely.
  - ceejayoz 1y ago
    It's not. https://lawsuit.org/general-law/republicans-have-an-obsession-with-transgender-pornography/ https://lawsuit.org/general-law/republicans-have-an-obsessio... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caitlyn_Jenner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caitlyn_Jenner Being trans (or being attracted to a trans person) is one of many aspects of that person. Other political positions may outweigh it, and the taboo nature of it may be an appeal (see also: stepsibling roleplay porn).
krisboyz781 1y ago
Ahhh yes, whose entire family is maga and lives in the most conservative state in America
- seanw444 1y ago
  What if I told you I live in the same state, and I know several people of the same age who completely ideologically oppose their MAGA family?
cloverich 1y ago
My bias in these cases is that the simplest answer, same as any mass shooting, is that the killers motivations are a manifestation of mental illness and nothing more. Not always true but typically so; wasnt the trump would be assassin not left for instance? When i was told that i wasnt surprised, not because i think it was more likely of someone on the right, but because i think its mostly random. Eg we have a gun culture, a toxic culture, and a lack of mental health institutions culture. That will only ever produce (among other things) a consistent stream of random acts of violence. In this particular case i am a little more curious than usual to find out if that holds up here if only because the narrative was so immediately anti left attacks.
- barney54 1y ago
  [flagged]
- tootie 1y ago
  Just look at the guy who shot Trump's ear. He had no discernable motive or explicit political leaning at all. And had supposedly been tracking both Trump and Biden. He just did it for attention.

suzdude 1y ago

There are multiple statements from his relatives that his family are "MAGA", his parents are Registered Republicans. https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/crime/tyler-robinson-family-republican-b2825943.html https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/crime/ty... It seems he was "raised right", with easy access to firearms and ammunition. Items not nearly as common in left voting urban areas. However, Mr. Kimmel's comments centered on the fact that his political leanings, and reasoning for the school shooting are not entirely clear.

barney54 1y ago
The reasoning for the shooting is pretty clear. He told his transgender lover that “I had enough of his [Kirk’s] hatred. Some hate can’t be negotiated out.” https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/26098852-tyler-robinson-indictment/ https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/26098852-tyler-robin...
- suzdude 1y ago
  No, that's the reason to hate Kirk, not a reason to shoot him. What in his upbringing led him to believe the way to handle the situation was with violence is unclear.
  - ars 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - suzdude 1y ago
      The school shooting that Mr. Kirk lost his life to is not, "left wing violence". Unless you want to submit that most school shootings are "right wing violence" if the shooter hated public education.
    - vjjsejj 1y ago
      Certainly not more creative compared to painting someone who openly supports school shootings as some sort of a martyr.