4 ms·

It's getting a little difficult to trust stuff by Leah Culver. Everything (that I know of) that she has done so far has either shut down or been acquired and sh

by Rayne 14y ago

It's getting a little difficult to trust stuff by Leah Culver. Everything (that I know of) that she has done so far has either shut down or been acquired and shut down. That said, no hard feelings. It's hard out there. I've never tried to run a company, so I can't judge.

roryokane 14y ago
List of projects by Leah Culver: http://blog.leahculver.com/about.html http://blog.leahculver.com/about.html – Hurl, Baconfile, Convore, Pownce, and Grove.
robryan 14y ago
Was my first thought to, no real explanation of why they are shutting down either. If something is a low friction consumer app, it is expected that many will evolve and pivot. With something like a business tool though I want something that is going to be around for the long term and it would be a factor on further products she creates. From experience I know a startup is hard and things don't always go to plan so I can sympathise there, just that when choosing tools for business stability is a factor.
pbiggar 14y ago
And yet you just did. As a community we praise people for trying, then when it fails we pillory them? A dick move, sir.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- Rayne 14y ago
  If it came off that way, I apologize. I was just expressing the thought that popped into my mind when seeing this. I'm not at all trying to judge her. I think she does excellent work and has just had a few bad apples. I hope her next project is successful.
  - pbiggar 14y ago
    I think you might still have time to edit the post to come off the way you intended.
    - lhnn 14y ago
      You might have time to drift down off that horse you're on and give the guy a break. So what if he's judging someone? He made a valid comment about the fact that this person supposedly consistently lets users of their startups down.
      - pbiggar 14y ago
        I'm pretty happy up on this horse. Acting like that to people is not OK. Calling it out as a dick move is the way to combat it. You say "supposedly" but you just assumed it was "valid". So without evidence or context, you took him at face value and now assume bad things about the person in question. That's why it's a dick move.
        mibbitier 14y ago
        * Pownce - shut down * Convore - shut down * Grove - shut down I think the guy is really just telling facts. Unfortunately, it means that the next project may have users worrying about when it'll be shut down. (There were actually comments to that affect when grove was announced on HN). Also, I think the underlying issue here is that none of those services cost anything to run, so they seem to have been shutdown because of other factors - perhaps a lack of ability to see things through.
        deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
- akkartik 14y ago
  pil·lo·ry [pil-uh-ree] noun a wooden framework erected on a post, with holes for securing the head and hands, formerly used to expose an offender to public derision. Is that really what grandparent did? I think it's an unfair characterization. It was a personal opinion stated weakly and with restraint, not some attempt to incite a mob. I have no opinion on this specific startup. Perhaps they've provided enough time to migrate; that's for their paying customers to judge. But it's naive to think failures doesn't affect your reputation. It does, and it should. Do you really think savvy users won't take your track record into account when deciding whether to use your service? It goes against their interests, and nothing is more darwinian than a startup. --- Here in silicon valley we say that failure is ok. And yet accountability is also good. There's a tension here. Perhaps failed startups are fine for investors, who might have diversified into many different vehicles. They're more problematic for customers who rely on a product. And paradoxically, the closer a startup gets to solving a hair-on-fire problem, the more careful they need to be about how they treat their customers on the way out. Even if investors claim failure is ok, is that always the case? I suspect past track record does play a role somehow, even if it's subtle and hidden behind the scenes. Even if failure is sometimes ok, there are failures and there are failures. A lot depends on how the wrap-up was carried out, and how people feel about it. When startups are few and creation is to be encouraged, failure can be ignored. When startups are plentiful and failure starts to be taken for granted, perhaps it's time to emphasize accountability.
  - pbiggar 14y ago
    I agree there is a tension for customers. However, what I'm objecting to is the HN community's reaction. We're the people who are pro startups, who think failure is OK, who encourage pivoting from unsuccessful products to markets we discover along the way. The grandparent is the opposite of what this community is about. And attaching their name to it is worse. Saying "I'm starting to not trust this startup" would have been much more acceptable in my opinion.
    - frabcus 14y ago
      She hasn't said why it failed. As a paying customer (via ScraperWiki), I find that frustrating. It gives me little new knowledge, and makes the move seem sudden and strange. From the outside, Grove looks quite successful. A simple "we only had 20 paying customers and we think SaaS IRC doesn't work for reason X" would be fine. That she hasn't said that, to me implies there is something else going on. Hope she's OK!
ricardobeat 14y ago
The funny part is that http://convore.com/ http://convore.com/ redirects to grove.io with the shutdown notice :)
- heretohelp 14y ago
  We should take bets on how far the, "we're gone, but here's our new thing!" chain will go.
- jaseemabid 14y ago
  So damn true. Soon grove will add such a notice
sown 14y ago
I wish I could create things that people might actually want but I can't think of anything that I could make that people would want.
- dchuk 14y ago
  The vast majority of the time, if you build something that scratches your own itch, there will be others out there that will also find it useful. The challenge is to find a big enough itch.
  - redguava 14y ago
    I always find this to be terrible advice. Most programmers have similar itches, if you scratch your own itch, you are going into a lot of competition with many other developers. Why not solve a problem for an industry that gets much less attention? Maybe success rates would be much higher if we stopped all building the same things.
    - dchuk 14y ago
      I never said anything about building tools for programmers. I'm actually a major proponent of building apps and tools that scratch non-technical itches, or more specifically, intersecting your development skills with your hobbies or interests.
      - mh- 14y ago
        unfortunately for those of us who don't have any non-programming/tech interests that doesn't leave much left. :) (uber, taskrabbit notwithstanding..)
        pbiggar 14y ago
        It seems that the companies coming out of YC now are scratching a very diversified set of itches, for example YourMechanic.
        14y ago
btipling 14y ago
Leah is out there creating things, writing code and spending valuable time on new ventures, despite the risk and opportunity cost. I admire her courage and creativity and I can't imagine why you would say something like this. I'm sure she would have loved to have all of her projects succeed. Grove.io is a high quality service. We love using it at Leftronic and are very sad to read this news. I wish Leah and her team the best.
- Rayne 14y ago
  I'm not sure what I said that was so terrible. I think Leah is great and I really hate hear news like this. I also agree that the service was good. My sole point is that companies that use this service also get hurt by this shutdown. When it happens several times as it unfortunately has in her case, you start to worry about new ventures disappearing too. It is in no way a shot at Leah or her work. It's just a recognition of history.
  - pbiggar 14y ago
    Your first sentence was the thing you said that was so terrible.
    - jmathai 14y ago
      But every sentence afterwards put it in context.
      - pbiggar 14y ago
        I don't agree. You can't start with a statement like that and then backpeddle - your lede has the most impact and is what people remember. He had a chance to edit his post to better reflect his position, but chose not to take it. I wish he had. (And to complete this, lets not forget that Rayne is also a person who just made a mistake. It is the action which is bad, not the person).
        googlengine 14y ago
plusbryan 14y ago
Companies are shut down for a variety of reasons, and entrepreneurial success is often equal parts idea, luck, and hard work. Leah has built several popular products with loyal followings - which is more than a lot of us can say.

by Rayne 14y ago

roryokane 14y ago

List of projects by Leah Culver: http://blog.leahculver.com/about.html http://blog.leahculver.com/about.html – Hurl, Baconfile, Convore, Pownce, and Grove.

robryan 14y ago

Was my first thought to, no real explanation of why they are shutting down either. If something is a low friction consumer app, it is expected that many will evolve and pivot. With something like a business tool though I want something that is going to be around for the long term and it would be a factor on further products she creates. From experience I know a startup is hard and things don't always go to plan so I can sympathise there, just that when choosing tools for business stability is a factor.

pbiggar 14y ago

And yet you just did. As a community we praise people for trying, then when it fails we pillory them? A dick move, sir.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
Rayne 14y ago
If it came off that way, I apologize. I was just expressing the thought that popped into my mind when seeing this. I'm not at all trying to judge her. I think she does excellent work and has just had a few bad apples. I hope her next project is successful.
- pbiggar 14y ago
  I think you might still have time to edit the post to come off the way you intended.
  - lhnn 14y ago
    You might have time to drift down off that horse you're on and give the guy a break. So what if he's judging someone? He made a valid comment about the fact that this person supposedly consistently lets users of their startups down.
    - pbiggar 14y ago
      I'm pretty happy up on this horse. Acting like that to people is not OK. Calling it out as a dick move is the way to combat it. You say "supposedly" but you just assumed it was "valid". So without evidence or context, you took him at face value and now assume bad things about the person in question. That's why it's a dick move.
      - mibbitier 14y ago
        * Pownce - shut down * Convore - shut down * Grove - shut down I think the guy is really just telling facts. Unfortunately, it means that the next project may have users worrying about when it'll be shut down. (There were actually comments to that affect when grove was announced on HN). Also, I think the underlying issue here is that none of those services cost anything to run, so they seem to have been shutdown because of other factors - perhaps a lack of ability to see things through.
      - deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
akkartik 14y ago
pil·lo·ry [pil-uh-ree] noun a wooden framework erected on a post, with holes for securing the head and hands, formerly used to expose an offender to public derision. Is that really what grandparent did? I think it's an unfair characterization. It was a personal opinion stated weakly and with restraint, not some attempt to incite a mob. I have no opinion on this specific startup. Perhaps they've provided enough time to migrate; that's for their paying customers to judge. But it's naive to think failures doesn't affect your reputation. It does, and it should. Do you really think savvy users won't take your track record into account when deciding whether to use your service? It goes against their interests, and nothing is more darwinian than a startup. --- Here in silicon valley we say that failure is ok. And yet accountability is also good. There's a tension here. Perhaps failed startups are fine for investors, who might have diversified into many different vehicles. They're more problematic for customers who rely on a product. And paradoxically, the closer a startup gets to solving a hair-on-fire problem, the more careful they need to be about how they treat their customers on the way out. Even if investors claim failure is ok, is that always the case? I suspect past track record does play a role somehow, even if it's subtle and hidden behind the scenes. Even if failure is sometimes ok, there are failures and there are failures. A lot depends on how the wrap-up was carried out, and how people feel about it. When startups are few and creation is to be encouraged, failure can be ignored. When startups are plentiful and failure starts to be taken for granted, perhaps it's time to emphasize accountability.
- pbiggar 14y ago
  I agree there is a tension for customers. However, what I'm objecting to is the HN community's reaction. We're the people who are pro startups, who think failure is OK, who encourage pivoting from unsuccessful products to markets we discover along the way. The grandparent is the opposite of what this community is about. And attaching their name to it is worse. Saying "I'm starting to not trust this startup" would have been much more acceptable in my opinion.
  - frabcus 14y ago
    She hasn't said why it failed. As a paying customer (via ScraperWiki), I find that frustrating. It gives me little new knowledge, and makes the move seem sudden and strange. From the outside, Grove looks quite successful. A simple "we only had 20 paying customers and we think SaaS IRC doesn't work for reason X" would be fine. That she hasn't said that, to me implies there is something else going on. Hope she's OK!

ricardobeat 14y ago

The funny part is that http://convore.com/ http://convore.com/ redirects to grove.io with the shutdown notice :)

heretohelp 14y ago
We should take bets on how far the, "we're gone, but here's our new thing!" chain will go.
jaseemabid 14y ago
So damn true. Soon grove will add such a notice

sown 14y ago

I wish I could create things that people might actually want but I can't think of anything that I could make that people would want.

dchuk 14y ago
The vast majority of the time, if you build something that scratches your own itch, there will be others out there that will also find it useful. The challenge is to find a big enough itch.
- redguava 14y ago
  I always find this to be terrible advice. Most programmers have similar itches, if you scratch your own itch, you are going into a lot of competition with many other developers. Why not solve a problem for an industry that gets much less attention? Maybe success rates would be much higher if we stopped all building the same things.
  - dchuk 14y ago
    I never said anything about building tools for programmers. I'm actually a major proponent of building apps and tools that scratch non-technical itches, or more specifically, intersecting your development skills with your hobbies or interests.
    - mh- 14y ago
      unfortunately for those of us who don't have any non-programming/tech interests that doesn't leave much left. :) (uber, taskrabbit notwithstanding..)
      - pbiggar 14y ago
        It seems that the companies coming out of YC now are scratching a very diversified set of itches, for example YourMechanic.
      - 14y ago

btipling 14y ago

Leah is out there creating things, writing code and spending valuable time on new ventures, despite the risk and opportunity cost. I admire her courage and creativity and I can't imagine why you would say something like this. I'm sure she would have loved to have all of her projects succeed. Grove.io is a high quality service. We love using it at Leftronic and are very sad to read this news. I wish Leah and her team the best.

Rayne 14y ago
I'm not sure what I said that was so terrible. I think Leah is great and I really hate hear news like this. I also agree that the service was good. My sole point is that companies that use this service also get hurt by this shutdown. When it happens several times as it unfortunately has in her case, you start to worry about new ventures disappearing too. It is in no way a shot at Leah or her work. It's just a recognition of history.
- pbiggar 14y ago
  Your first sentence was the thing you said that was so terrible.
  - jmathai 14y ago
    But every sentence afterwards put it in context.
    - pbiggar 14y ago
      I don't agree. You can't start with a statement like that and then backpeddle - your lede has the most impact and is what people remember. He had a chance to edit his post to better reflect his position, but chose not to take it. I wish he had. (And to complete this, lets not forget that Rayne is also a person who just made a mistake. It is the action which is bad, not the person).
      - googlengine 14y ago

plusbryan 14y ago

Companies are shut down for a variety of reasons, and entrepreneurial success is often equal parts idea, luck, and hard work. Leah has built several popular products with loyal followings - which is more than a lot of us can say.