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Any thoughts on that Moonwalking With Einstein book? I'd love to improve information retention in my day to day life, especially in software. I'm not so much in

Any thoughts on that Moonwalking With Einstein book? I'd love to improve information retention in my day to day life, especially in software. I'm not so much interested in remembering the to-do list as retaining broader concepts for long periods of time. I'm lucky enough to get to learn a ton of things every day, but my long term retention of them is terrible unless I spend considerable time applying these ideas in practice, which is often not practically possible. This leads to a lot of wasted time, it's as if I never even read the darn thing. Often, and this is the sad part, I won't even bother reading something because I know I'll forget it almost immediately, unless I have a block of time available to dedicate to trying it out in practice. For example, I'm really fond of the underpinnings of programming language design and compilers, and it's thousands over thousands of pages of information (most of it very interesting and useful to me), but I fail to retain the vast majority of the great info and need to continuously go back to the texts whenever I'm in doubt about something. There were a couple of valuable techniques recommended in Pragmatic Bookshelf's Pragmatic Thinking and Learning, such as "now pretend you have to teach this concept to your former self who knows nothing about this", which supposedly helps with retention and internalization into the brain's "web of known facts". Is there anything like that in the book? Would it be of any help?

deleted 14y ago
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DRA40399 14y ago
Yes it's a good book and the principles of memory and how the brain remembers are useful in context of both to do lists and long term memory. You just have to practice them
dsrguru 14y ago
Yeah, the book starts by stating that everyone can have a photographic-like memory if they practice the right techniques, goes on to explain the history of the art of memory, and then intersperses detailed descriptions of the techniques with a fascinating autobiography. It's probably not the best tutorial, but it's a great starting point and also a really fun and fast read. At the very least, I can guarantee it will greatly change the way you look at what the human brain is capable of.
- slantyyz 14y ago
  Agree - this is an entertaining book. If you commute, the audio version is worth getting. If you're looking for more detailed techniques, Harry Lorayne's books might be better.
citizenlow 14y ago
Foer's book pairs a solid survey of techniques to master memory with a great story about his own disciplined walk through the world of competitive recall. I think you will like it. And yeah, within a free-ranging story well told, there are introductions to multiple techniques (some of them rooted in the ancient, like the “Method of Loci", and some of them interesting contemporary 'cheats') that you might want to try applying to your retention of dense texts. I totally recognize & share the difficulty you describe. Recommended...give it a shot.
charlieflowers 14y ago
You should look into Anki and "Spaced Repetition." The gist is that you submit a bunch of facts you want to remember to a computer program, and that program applies an algorithm to figure out when you are likely to be about to forget something. The program quizzes you just as you were about to forget (but before you do), and the act of responding to that quiz renews and strengthens the memory. Powerful. I've been using it for myself and my 9 year old daughter, and it has been very effective. Many use it to build foreign language vocabulary, or memory of Chinese pictographs. (Note: This is not the subject of the "Moonwalk with Einstein" book -- I mention it as an additional tool for helping with the memory goals you stated). Some Links: Anki: http://ankisrs.net/ http://ankisrs.net/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaced_repetition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaced_repetition Article on Piotr Wozniak and Spaced Repetition: http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/magazine/16-05/ff_wozniak?currentPage=all http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/magazine/16-05/ff_woznia...
- dsrguru 14y ago
  I'm really glad you brought up spaced repetition since spaced repetition and the techniques described in Moonwalking with Einstein happen to be two of the items on my relatively small list of the most amazing things humans are capable of that they neglected to teach me in kindergarten. I'm sure most people on HN are unfamiliar with both, so I'd like to give a brief overview of what they are and how they work. The techniques described in Moonwalking with Einstein require serious time investment up front, but allow you to cultivate a memory that rivals that of people with savantism (who incidentally tend to use the same general techniques but do so naturally). Spaced repetition doesn't produce as amazing results but doesn't require initial time investment and is a far more efficient method of memorizing data than conventional approaches. The only downside to spaced repetition is that most software implementations of it require daily review and don't work optimally if you miss a day (recent versions of the proprietary SuperMemo, Piotr Wozniak's own software, are supposed to be much more forgiving), but you don't need to invest much time each day. So how exactly do these two memory techniques work? Spaced repetition is predicated on the notion that the longer you wait before reviewing data, the longer that information will stick in your head. That is, as long as you are able to recall the data when you review it. If you wait too long, you'll completely forget the data. So there exists an optimal length of time to wait before reviewing a piece of data, and as with the American game show The Price is Right, you can approach that optimal value by increasing your estimate, but the moment your estimate exceeds that optimal value, it becomes less useful than all possible underestimates. The goal of spaced repetition systems (SRS), such as the software programs SuperMemo, Mnemosyne, and Anki, is to adapt to the user's mind and figure out this optimal interval to wait before showing a flash card again, as opposed to conventional flash card systems that review each card every day. Not only does spaced repetition greatly increase the value of each time you review a card by committing it further into your long term memory, but it also greatly decreases the number of flash cards you need to review each day. The art of memory (aka method of loci), which is the technique described in Moonwalking with Einstein, works by taking advantage of the fact that our visual and spacial memory is far better than our memory for arbitrary facts. The gist of the technique is to convert data that you want to memorize into vivid images (the funnier or cruder the better) and arrange those images at discrete points in a predefined order along a spacial layout you know well (the layout is called a "memory palace", but it can be your home, school, office, neighborhood, favorite video game map, etc.). To recall the data, all you have to do is retrace your steps and remind yourself what each image means. Combining this technique with spaced repetition, you can commit thousands of pieces of data to a memory palace, wait a few hours to retrace your steps to recall the information, retrace your steps again the next day, then again a few days later, then again a week later, then a month later, etc. In this way, about two or three hours distributed over 5 or so weeks (maybe with one more review the next year) will let you memorize thousands of pieces of data permanently. The stuff you can do with your mind once you know more efficient memory techniques is truly amazing.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
ga0bi 14y ago
Picked up the e-book a few hours ago and read this gem: "Monotony collapses time; novelty unfolds it. If you spend your life sitting in a cubicle and passing papers, one day is bound to blend unmemorably into the next -- and disappear. That's why it's important to change routines regularly, and take vacations to exotic locales, and have as many new experiences as possible that can serve to anchor our memories. Creating new memories stretches out psychological time, and lengthens our perception of our lives." Really struck me personally since it reminds me of my grandmother. She's in her 70s now and she has a daily routine that consists of eating, watching the news, playing Hearts, and hygiene duties. She's in really good health but it's obvious that she is getting mentally slower and her memory is fading. Reason I mention this is because I picked up the book expecting it to be filled with scientific data and memory improvement techniques I've read about before. But instead, it has been a really enjoyable read filled with anecdotes and passages that made me stop and think about how I can improve my personal life (beyond improving memory). It might not be the best book for what you're looking for specifically but just wanted to share my gains in case it interests anyone.
sandGorgon 14y ago
here is a comment that someone posted on Bill Gates' blog We have a community of over 1,000 mnemonists-in-training at Mnemotechnics.org where you can learn the techniques from our forum and wiki for free...
drbawb 14y ago
I too, am interested in this. From what I gather reading the synopsis and the relevant discussion here: I'm not so sure how useful it would be for me. At the very least: I think it'd be a challenging technique for me to pick up. It sounds like it relies on having a good spatial memory, e.g: being able to hold "maps" in your head. I've always been terrible at that, just ask anyone from my D&D campaigns. However I think I'll pick up a copy of the book; even if I can't apply the techniques it really piqued my interest.
- ga0bi 14y ago
  I also have poor spatial memory (especially when it comes to navigating), but the book recommends using a place you're extremely comfortable with as your memory palace. I used the second house I grew up in for the first memory task (a to-do list). After a few times walking through the house and seeing the hilarious images I've placed in each room, not only do I remember the to-do list but I've enhanced my memory of my home. I can remember how the carpet felt, what the wall textures look like, and how it even smelled. Best of luck to you; it's been really fun so far!

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

DRA40399 14y ago

Yes it's a good book and the principles of memory and how the brain remembers are useful in context of both to do lists and long term memory. You just have to practice them

dsrguru 14y ago

Yeah, the book starts by stating that everyone can have a photographic-like memory if they practice the right techniques, goes on to explain the history of the art of memory, and then intersperses detailed descriptions of the techniques with a fascinating autobiography. It's probably not the best tutorial, but it's a great starting point and also a really fun and fast read. At the very least, I can guarantee it will greatly change the way you look at what the human brain is capable of.

slantyyz 14y ago
Agree - this is an entertaining book. If you commute, the audio version is worth getting. If you're looking for more detailed techniques, Harry Lorayne's books might be better.

citizenlow 14y ago

Foer's book pairs a solid survey of techniques to master memory with a great story about his own disciplined walk through the world of competitive recall. I think you will like it. And yeah, within a free-ranging story well told, there are introductions to multiple techniques (some of them rooted in the ancient, like the “Method of Loci", and some of them interesting contemporary 'cheats') that you might want to try applying to your retention of dense texts. I totally recognize & share the difficulty you describe. Recommended...give it a shot.

charlieflowers 14y ago

You should look into Anki and "Spaced Repetition." The gist is that you submit a bunch of facts you want to remember to a computer program, and that program applies an algorithm to figure out when you are likely to be about to forget something. The program quizzes you just as you were about to forget (but before you do), and the act of responding to that quiz renews and strengthens the memory. Powerful. I've been using it for myself and my 9 year old daughter, and it has been very effective. Many use it to build foreign language vocabulary, or memory of Chinese pictographs. (Note: This is not the subject of the "Moonwalk with Einstein" book -- I mention it as an additional tool for helping with the memory goals you stated). Some Links: Anki: http://ankisrs.net/ http://ankisrs.net/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaced_repetition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaced_repetition Article on Piotr Wozniak and Spaced Repetition: http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/magazine/16-05/ff_wozniak?currentPage=all http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/magazine/16-05/ff_woznia...

dsrguru 14y ago
I'm really glad you brought up spaced repetition since spaced repetition and the techniques described in Moonwalking with Einstein happen to be two of the items on my relatively small list of the most amazing things humans are capable of that they neglected to teach me in kindergarten. I'm sure most people on HN are unfamiliar with both, so I'd like to give a brief overview of what they are and how they work. The techniques described in Moonwalking with Einstein require serious time investment up front, but allow you to cultivate a memory that rivals that of people with savantism (who incidentally tend to use the same general techniques but do so naturally). Spaced repetition doesn't produce as amazing results but doesn't require initial time investment and is a far more efficient method of memorizing data than conventional approaches. The only downside to spaced repetition is that most software implementations of it require daily review and don't work optimally if you miss a day (recent versions of the proprietary SuperMemo, Piotr Wozniak's own software, are supposed to be much more forgiving), but you don't need to invest much time each day. So how exactly do these two memory techniques work? Spaced repetition is predicated on the notion that the longer you wait before reviewing data, the longer that information will stick in your head. That is, as long as you are able to recall the data when you review it. If you wait too long, you'll completely forget the data. So there exists an optimal length of time to wait before reviewing a piece of data, and as with the American game show The Price is Right, you can approach that optimal value by increasing your estimate, but the moment your estimate exceeds that optimal value, it becomes less useful than all possible underestimates. The goal of spaced repetition systems (SRS), such as the software programs SuperMemo, Mnemosyne, and Anki, is to adapt to the user's mind and figure out this optimal interval to wait before showing a flash card again, as opposed to conventional flash card systems that review each card every day. Not only does spaced repetition greatly increase the value of each time you review a card by committing it further into your long term memory, but it also greatly decreases the number of flash cards you need to review each day. The art of memory (aka method of loci), which is the technique described in Moonwalking with Einstein, works by taking advantage of the fact that our visual and spacial memory is far better than our memory for arbitrary facts. The gist of the technique is to convert data that you want to memorize into vivid images (the funnier or cruder the better) and arrange those images at discrete points in a predefined order along a spacial layout you know well (the layout is called a "memory palace", but it can be your home, school, office, neighborhood, favorite video game map, etc.). To recall the data, all you have to do is retrace your steps and remind yourself what each image means. Combining this technique with spaced repetition, you can commit thousands of pieces of data to a memory palace, wait a few hours to retrace your steps to recall the information, retrace your steps again the next day, then again a few days later, then again a week later, then a month later, etc. In this way, about two or three hours distributed over 5 or so weeks (maybe with one more review the next year) will let you memorize thousands of pieces of data permanently. The stuff you can do with your mind once you know more efficient memory techniques is truly amazing.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

ga0bi 14y ago

Picked up the e-book a few hours ago and read this gem: "Monotony collapses time; novelty unfolds it. If you spend your life sitting in a cubicle and passing papers, one day is bound to blend unmemorably into the next -- and disappear. That's why it's important to change routines regularly, and take vacations to exotic locales, and have as many new experiences as possible that can serve to anchor our memories. Creating new memories stretches out psychological time, and lengthens our perception of our lives." Really struck me personally since it reminds me of my grandmother. She's in her 70s now and she has a daily routine that consists of eating, watching the news, playing Hearts, and hygiene duties. She's in really good health but it's obvious that she is getting mentally slower and her memory is fading. Reason I mention this is because I picked up the book expecting it to be filled with scientific data and memory improvement techniques I've read about before. But instead, it has been a really enjoyable read filled with anecdotes and passages that made me stop and think about how I can improve my personal life (beyond improving memory). It might not be the best book for what you're looking for specifically but just wanted to share my gains in case it interests anyone.

sandGorgon 14y ago

here is a comment that someone posted on Bill Gates' blog We have a community of over 1,000 mnemonists-in-training at Mnemotechnics.org where you can learn the techniques from our forum and wiki for free...

drbawb 14y ago

I too, am interested in this. From what I gather reading the synopsis and the relevant discussion here: I'm not so sure how useful it would be for me. At the very least: I think it'd be a challenging technique for me to pick up. It sounds like it relies on having a good spatial memory, e.g: being able to hold "maps" in your head. I've always been terrible at that, just ask anyone from my D&D campaigns. However I think I'll pick up a copy of the book; even if I can't apply the techniques it really piqued my interest.

ga0bi 14y ago
I also have poor spatial memory (especially when it comes to navigating), but the book recommends using a place you're extremely comfortable with as your memory palace. I used the second house I grew up in for the first memory task (a to-do list). After a few times walking through the house and seeing the hilarious images I've placed in each room, not only do I remember the to-do list but I've enhanced my memory of my home. I can remember how the carpet felt, what the wall textures look like, and how it even smelled. Best of luck to you; it's been really fun so far!