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One of the things I really miss about those days was the sense of optimism. We knew computers were getting more powerful, we knew they would change society, I

One of the things I really miss about those days was the sense of optimism. We knew computers were getting more powerful, we knew they would change society, I hoped they could help make things better for people everywhere. What we got was lock-in and locked-down hardware, mass-surveillance, ad-driven content farms and the attention economy. There have been positives, but man. What a let-down.

criddell 1y ago
Computers used to be fun. IBM launched the PCjr and it was a cover story. When's the last time anybody wrote about a new desktop? I guess Apple and Framework do something interesting occasionally. Does anybody else?
- Gigachad 1y ago
  Desktops are very rarely sold as complete products anymore. Basically the only market for them left is gamers who are just going to build their own from parts. Individual GPUs and etc do get articles. The Mac mini gets quite a lot of attention considering I’ve never actually met a Mac mini user ever. Everyone picks the MacBook.
  - M95D 1y ago
    A lot of desktops are sold, but not to users. To companies.
  - criddell 1y ago
    It's not that computers like the PCjr were big deals (less than 300,000 of them were sold), it's that they were interesting. People talked about them.
AnimalMuppet 1y ago
Not just "we knew they were getting more powerful". We could watch it, month to month, just by reading the ads. Every month there was an ad or three for something that I had never even dreamed you could do with a computer.
CharlesW 1y ago
The industry has been around long enough to see itself become the villain. I'm sad for those who weren't around during its "hero" days. There was something special about running code copied from magazines, meeting and "trading" with like-minded people at early user group meetings, and having your mind blown by the computers and software that emerged from the tech heterogeneity of that time.
hagbard_c 1y ago
You get what you make of it and I think your description of what we have is far too negative. You can actually get out of that oppressive world, you might not be able to use the latest hardware and may need to maintain some defence against the data parasites you describe but I'm fairly content with the situation we are in running: - old off-lease hardware providing our services - those services are based around free software and keep our data where we can 'see' it. No Apple-Google-Meta-Microsoft-etc accounts needed or wanted. - older laptops, notebooks, mobile devices running free software Content filtering takes care of the advertising and other data parasites. As to 'the attention economy' that is up to you as an individual to keep out of your life. Ditch the legacy media and you're already on the right trail, find alternatives where needed and you'll be fine. If some product is locked down you just have to refrain from using it no matter how enticing it looks, no matter how slick the advertising, no matter how heavy the group pressure. You may have to live with your text messages showing up in a different colour on the screens of those who drank the Kool-Aid, you may have to insist on using a different communication channel than the one pushed by FaceMetabook, etc. In short there is still a bright future for those who know how coax it from the materials at hand, you'll just have to fight the parasites who always appear in thriving ecosystems. Squash them like the bugs they are and you'll be fine unless you happen to live somewhere where the state uses repressive means to keep everyone and everything under its control. If this is the case you can try to fight it, especially while they have not achieved full control and there is still a chance of turning the ship around. If not you're probably best off by moving out of that state, the world is a big place and there's likely to be some country where your skills are welcomed.
- FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago
  I think the biggest difference is, in the past, technology felt "enabling" and now it feels "predatory"
  - ryandrake 1y ago
    Another view: in the past, when you started using a new technology, you wanted to explore it and find new ways to use it. Now, when you start using a new technology, you need to tiptoe around it and/or find ways to disable it.
michaeldoron 1y ago
I appreciate my elders' experience, but do note that contemporary AI researchers and enthusiasts often feel similarly about AI advancements: We watch AI models become better each month, not in ads, but in blogs and posts. While not making cover stories, new models do make the news. I was so excited when Dall-E first came out, I even hosted a guess-the-prompt party four years ago with what seems now like prehistoric-level generated images. The AI industry may face more scrutiny and criticism than the computer hardware industry of the olden days, but we even have a semblance of open source communities who are trying to democratize this for everyone. All this to say, similar sentiments still exist in the frontier, it's just that the frontier moved.
- munificent 1y ago
  In the 80s and 90s, most of the enthusiasm I saw was from nerds who just wanted to make cool stuff and share it with people. It felt like magic to make computers do things. Much (but not all) of the enthusiasm I see with AI today seems to be from people who think it will make them rich, powerful, and freed from the apparently intolerable burden of having to interact with other humans in order to generate and consume media. It's not the same.
  - fuzztester 1y ago
    I agree with the earlier part of your comment, but am not clear about this part: >and freed from the apparently intolerable burden of having to interact with other humans in order to generate and consume media. Can you explain it?
    - munificent 1y ago
      Things like: * A comment I saw on HN once where some dude was excited about AI video because it let him play at being a filmmaker without having to deal with actors, camera operators, etc. * The large number of tragic souls who install chatbot apps on their phones and have virtual relationships with them instead of actual relationships. * Spending an evening scrolling through TikTok or other social media which is increasingly AI-generated images and video instead of summoning the willpower to call a friend or get out of the house. * Music producers who use AI vocal generators instead of finding a friend who can sing. Etc.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
sakesun 1y ago
We once envisioned a future of greater connection, with information flowing freely and accessible to all. The irony is that we've instead created a fragmented society where misinformation and scams flourish.

criddell 1y ago

Computers used to be fun. IBM launched the PCjr and it was a cover story. When's the last time anybody wrote about a new desktop? I guess Apple and Framework do something interesting occasionally. Does anybody else?

Gigachad 1y ago
Desktops are very rarely sold as complete products anymore. Basically the only market for them left is gamers who are just going to build their own from parts. Individual GPUs and etc do get articles. The Mac mini gets quite a lot of attention considering I’ve never actually met a Mac mini user ever. Everyone picks the MacBook.
- M95D 1y ago
  A lot of desktops are sold, but not to users. To companies.
- criddell 1y ago
  It's not that computers like the PCjr were big deals (less than 300,000 of them were sold), it's that they were interesting. People talked about them.

AnimalMuppet 1y ago

Not just "we knew they were getting more powerful". We could watch it, month to month, just by reading the ads. Every month there was an ad or three for something that I had never even dreamed you could do with a computer.

CharlesW 1y ago

The industry has been around long enough to see itself become the villain. I'm sad for those who weren't around during its "hero" days. There was something special about running code copied from magazines, meeting and "trading" with like-minded people at early user group meetings, and having your mind blown by the computers and software that emerged from the tech heterogeneity of that time.

hagbard_c 1y ago

You get what you make of it and I think your description of what we have is far too negative. You can actually get out of that oppressive world, you might not be able to use the latest hardware and may need to maintain some defence against the data parasites you describe but I'm fairly content with the situation we are in running: - old off-lease hardware providing our services - those services are based around free software and keep our data where we can 'see' it. No Apple-Google-Meta-Microsoft-etc accounts needed or wanted. - older laptops, notebooks, mobile devices running free software Content filtering takes care of the advertising and other data parasites. As to 'the attention economy' that is up to you as an individual to keep out of your life. Ditch the legacy media and you're already on the right trail, find alternatives where needed and you'll be fine. If some product is locked down you just have to refrain from using it no matter how enticing it looks, no matter how slick the advertising, no matter how heavy the group pressure. You may have to live with your text messages showing up in a different colour on the screens of those who drank the Kool-Aid, you may have to insist on using a different communication channel than the one pushed by FaceMetabook, etc. In short there is still a bright future for those who know how coax it from the materials at hand, you'll just have to fight the parasites who always appear in thriving ecosystems. Squash them like the bugs they are and you'll be fine unless you happen to live somewhere where the state uses repressive means to keep everyone and everything under its control. If this is the case you can try to fight it, especially while they have not achieved full control and there is still a chance of turning the ship around. If not you're probably best off by moving out of that state, the world is a big place and there's likely to be some country where your skills are welcomed.

FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago
I think the biggest difference is, in the past, technology felt "enabling" and now it feels "predatory"
- ryandrake 1y ago
  Another view: in the past, when you started using a new technology, you wanted to explore it and find new ways to use it. Now, when you start using a new technology, you need to tiptoe around it and/or find ways to disable it.

michaeldoron 1y ago

I appreciate my elders' experience, but do note that contemporary AI researchers and enthusiasts often feel similarly about AI advancements: We watch AI models become better each month, not in ads, but in blogs and posts. While not making cover stories, new models do make the news. I was so excited when Dall-E first came out, I even hosted a guess-the-prompt party four years ago with what seems now like prehistoric-level generated images. The AI industry may face more scrutiny and criticism than the computer hardware industry of the olden days, but we even have a semblance of open source communities who are trying to democratize this for everyone. All this to say, similar sentiments still exist in the frontier, it's just that the frontier moved.

munificent 1y ago
In the 80s and 90s, most of the enthusiasm I saw was from nerds who just wanted to make cool stuff and share it with people. It felt like magic to make computers do things. Much (but not all) of the enthusiasm I see with AI today seems to be from people who think it will make them rich, powerful, and freed from the apparently intolerable burden of having to interact with other humans in order to generate and consume media. It's not the same.
- fuzztester 1y ago
  I agree with the earlier part of your comment, but am not clear about this part: >and freed from the apparently intolerable burden of having to interact with other humans in order to generate and consume media. Can you explain it?
  - munificent 1y ago
    Things like: * A comment I saw on HN once where some dude was excited about AI video because it let him play at being a filmmaker without having to deal with actors, camera operators, etc. * The large number of tragic souls who install chatbot apps on their phones and have virtual relationships with them instead of actual relationships. * Spending an evening scrolling through TikTok or other social media which is increasingly AI-generated images and video instead of summoning the willpower to call a friend or get out of the house. * Music producers who use AI vocal generators instead of finding a friend who can sing. Etc.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

sakesun 1y ago

We once envisioned a future of greater connection, with information flowing freely and accessible to all. The irony is that we've instead created a fragmented society where misinformation and scams flourish.