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I agree that it's crucial that in democracy, the press, academy, finance, industry, sport, religion, social should all be independent. That, unfortunately, is

by cbeach 1y ago

I agree that it's crucial that in democracy, the press, academy, finance, industry, sport, religion, social should all be independent. That, unfortunately, is simply not the case at the moment. A good example is Biden excluding Tesla from EV-related events and discussions (and making the laughable claim that GM was leading the EV industry). Or the Biden-state Democrat-appointed judge McCormick who intervened in the Musk's X deal, and who cancelled Musk's pay package. Musk believes in libertarian, small-state values. In fact he intervened recently to reduce the size and power of the American state system. That's what libertarians do. That's not what authoritarians do. It's CERTAINLY not what fascists do (one aspect of fascism is large, totalitarian state apparatus)

toss1 1y ago
I'm glad you agree democracy requires independence in the three branches of govt and various branches of society. Which is why Musk's "Libertarian" presentation does not match reality. Musk spent more than a quarter BILLION dollars electing the most authoritarian person ever to occupy the chair of the US president, and now that the president Musk helped elect is actively using the power of the state to take control of corporations and threaten and coerce everyone in academia, journalism, media, and even comedians, Musk is not even posting protests on his own social media network to such massively anti-libertarian actions; he's egging it on. Musk is either the dumbest Libertarian ever to be suckered into putting $250 Billion into an anti-Libertarian candidate, or you are being deceived. As for Biden's relationship with Musk, would you really expect the most pro-union President in the last half-century to actively promote one of the most flagrantly anti-union and worker-hostile corporate executives in recent history? I agree it may not have been the smartest move by Biden to so blatantly shun Musk, but. As for the DOGE efforts, they were most definitely NOT supporting small-state values, they actively cost the govt money, and the primary reason was the most massive data raid ever, taking most of the Social Security Administration, Dept Of Labor, Dept of Educ., and other databases onto uncontrolled servers outside the govt system, attempting a data fusion unauthorized by ANY representatives of the people. Considering his relationship with Peter Theil running Palantir, who is openly authoritarian, believing democracy is incompatible with freedom, I'd put at best even odds the data hasn't been exfiltrated to the most authoritarian technology effort ever in the democratic world. Musk is either an extremely bad libertarian or none at all.
- cbeach 1y ago
  > he president Musk helped elect is actively using the power of the state to take control of corporations and threaten and coerce everyone in academia, journalism, media, and even comedians. Coercing who, exactly? Do you have any examples? Seems odd that an alleged authoritarian president would massively reduce the power of the state (DOGE), doesn't it? > As for the DOGE efforts, they were most definitely NOT supporting small-state values, they actively cost the govt money, Not in the long term, they won't. Reduce the size of the state = reduce the cost of the state. Peter Thiel is a libertarian. He was misconstrued by some as "authoritarian" based on a 2009 essay which included the phrase "I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible" -- the sentence is misunderstood as anti-democratic. What Thiel instead feared is "that mass democracy, driven by emotion, resentment, and short-termism, will deliberately or accidentally dismantle the freedoms that underpin innovation and growth"
  - toss1 1y ago
    >>Coercing who, exactly? Do you have any examples? Seriously? How can you ignore or justify as not authoritarian all the newspeople and COMEDIANS who Trump has coerced the networks into cancelling? All the spurious lawsuits and threats of abusive government action against any org broadcasting non-Trump-favorable news? Check the current abuse of the DOJ to go against anyone involved in investigating his crimes, the unilaterial userpation of Congress' power of the purse with the daily tariff announcements? DOGE is massively reducing the power of the state? NO, (aside from teh data raid) it is removing career professionals who might govern competently instead of loyally to the Chief Executive. That is the opposite of reducing government power, it is concentrating it. DOGE saving money? Nope again, every week it gets worse. They are literally recalling fired workers who have been on payroll doing nothing since April because the functions cannot be performed without them. Six months of paid leave without even firing people is the opposite of efficiency with payroll money. Theil Libertarian? Are you serious? He is building Palantir, which is the largest surveillance company ever, and integrating it into every government function he can. His friend Ellison also stated 'people will be on their best behavior when they are under cameras all the time'. Those are not the statements or actions of Libertarians, and any Libertarian sentiments are cover at best. Seriously, look and reassess. You are providing a fine example of how motivated reasoning and enthusiasm can lead to deeply wrong conclusions edit: correct "unpaid leave" to "paid leave" Plus, another reminder, Elon supported ALL of this with $250 - $400 million. That is not the action of a libertarian

by cbeach 1y ago

toss1 1y ago

I'm glad you agree democracy requires independence in the three branches of govt and various branches of society. Which is why Musk's "Libertarian" presentation does not match reality. Musk spent more than a quarter BILLION dollars electing the most authoritarian person ever to occupy the chair of the US president, and now that the president Musk helped elect is actively using the power of the state to take control of corporations and threaten and coerce everyone in academia, journalism, media, and even comedians, Musk is not even posting protests on his own social media network to such massively anti-libertarian actions; he's egging it on. Musk is either the dumbest Libertarian ever to be suckered into putting $250 Billion into an anti-Libertarian candidate, or you are being deceived. As for Biden's relationship with Musk, would you really expect the most pro-union President in the last half-century to actively promote one of the most flagrantly anti-union and worker-hostile corporate executives in recent history? I agree it may not have been the smartest move by Biden to so blatantly shun Musk, but. As for the DOGE efforts, they were most definitely NOT supporting small-state values, they actively cost the govt money, and the primary reason was the most massive data raid ever, taking most of the Social Security Administration, Dept Of Labor, Dept of Educ., and other databases onto uncontrolled servers outside the govt system, attempting a data fusion unauthorized by ANY representatives of the people. Considering his relationship with Peter Theil running Palantir, who is openly authoritarian, believing democracy is incompatible with freedom, I'd put at best even odds the data hasn't been exfiltrated to the most authoritarian technology effort ever in the democratic world. Musk is either an extremely bad libertarian or none at all.

cbeach 1y ago
> he president Musk helped elect is actively using the power of the state to take control of corporations and threaten and coerce everyone in academia, journalism, media, and even comedians. Coercing who, exactly? Do you have any examples? Seems odd that an alleged authoritarian president would massively reduce the power of the state (DOGE), doesn't it? > As for the DOGE efforts, they were most definitely NOT supporting small-state values, they actively cost the govt money, Not in the long term, they won't. Reduce the size of the state = reduce the cost of the state. Peter Thiel is a libertarian. He was misconstrued by some as "authoritarian" based on a 2009 essay which included the phrase "I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible" -- the sentence is misunderstood as anti-democratic. What Thiel instead feared is "that mass democracy, driven by emotion, resentment, and short-termism, will deliberately or accidentally dismantle the freedoms that underpin innovation and growth"
- toss1 1y ago
  >>Coercing who, exactly? Do you have any examples? Seriously? How can you ignore or justify as not authoritarian all the newspeople and COMEDIANS who Trump has coerced the networks into cancelling? All the spurious lawsuits and threats of abusive government action against any org broadcasting non-Trump-favorable news? Check the current abuse of the DOJ to go against anyone involved in investigating his crimes, the unilaterial userpation of Congress' power of the purse with the daily tariff announcements? DOGE is massively reducing the power of the state? NO, (aside from teh data raid) it is removing career professionals who might govern competently instead of loyally to the Chief Executive. That is the opposite of reducing government power, it is concentrating it. DOGE saving money? Nope again, every week it gets worse. They are literally recalling fired workers who have been on payroll doing nothing since April because the functions cannot be performed without them. Six months of paid leave without even firing people is the opposite of efficiency with payroll money. Theil Libertarian? Are you serious? He is building Palantir, which is the largest surveillance company ever, and integrating it into every government function he can. His friend Ellison also stated 'people will be on their best behavior when they are under cameras all the time'. Those are not the statements or actions of Libertarians, and any Libertarian sentiments are cover at best. Seriously, look and reassess. You are providing a fine example of how motivated reasoning and enthusiasm can lead to deeply wrong conclusions edit: correct "unpaid leave" to "paid leave" Plus, another reminder, Elon supported ALL of this with $250 - $400 million. That is not the action of a libertarian