6 ms·

Waiter waiter, more core applications using Electron! Just needed these two reasons to not even try it out. * Google Analytics on by default * >100mb downloa

by h4ch1 1y ago

Waiter waiter, more core applications using Electron! Just needed these two reasons to not even try it out. * Google Analytics on by default * >100mb download For a native terminal I'll happily use kitty or ghostty For a SSH client Zoc (https://www.emtec.com/zoc/ https://www.emtec.com/zoc/) hasn't disappointed me yet, and even then I almost just always ssh through my terminal.

ramon156 1y ago
Do people still use alacrity? It still feels like the most sane choice, although kitty and ghostty's rendering seems more robust. I guess I'll need to give them a go sometime
- h4ch1 1y ago
  Last I personally used Alacritty was 3-4 years back on Linux w/ wayland got some weird rendering bugs, switched to st (https://st.suckless.org/ https://st.suckless.org/) for a good while. When I got a Macbook last year, I did a "best terminal macos" search and evaluated multiple terminals; kitty, ghostty, iterm2 and wezterm. settled on ghostty because it just felt faster for terminal refreshes when I use vite, had tabs, could easily theme it to use ayu-dark. Nothing too extreme, just personal reasons iterm2 was fine as well, nothing special; wezterm and kitty just felt like linux apps that were on macos as well. YMMV.
- k_bx 1y ago
  Been driving my use for the last year or so, perfect as a thin wrapper around tmux (which is the same on macOS and Linux). I'll give iTerm2 another try, has many shiny features like touchID-sudo and such, otherwise don't understand what could possibly be better in ghostty/kitty
- exq 1y ago
  I still do. It's faster than Kitty and Ghostty, and I don't make use of the extra features those provide. I don't use glyphs nor rendered images, and I use a tiling WM so tabs aren't that important to me. Alacritty does what I need it to, and does it well.
  - mwcz 1y ago
    That's exactly my experience. I dislike ligatures (I want to see the characters I typed) and tiling/tabs are anti-features if you have a tiling WM.
- scabel 1y ago
  I use alacritty. I tried ghostty but not supported on my old home mac, felt slower, and some of the config was not robust. Same with Wezterm, felt slow. Alacritty has worked with no problem everywhere I installed it. Only annoyance was once when the config changed from yaml to toml. Other than that, happy user of alacritty.
- kubafu 1y ago
  Happy alacritty user here (Wayland + sway)!
- gausswho 1y ago
  I did for several years but moved on to foot due to minor Wayland quirks I don't even remember.
- alarcarittykg 1y ago
  Definitely, been using it for years and it's one of the upgrades that has genuinely made every day noticeably better
- mwcz 1y ago
  I've been using alacritty for ... I don't know, but many years, and haven't once been tempted to switch away.
- GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
  chiming in as another alacritty (linux) user. kitty never seemed to be much of an improvement for my own workflows, and on my mac, ironically enough, ghostty was having issues with escape sequences when using the terraform CLI, so i stopped using it there.
swah 1y ago
The "native input editing" on Warp did spoil me though. The block feature is also super nice. Especially in the days of copying and pasting from AI tools. I tested all others (wezterm, ghostty, kitty, rio..) but this comfort trumps the speed or minimalism for me. Just want a Warp without any AI. (Just checked and the main toggle was enabled, will try to disable it again)
dfc 1y ago
I don't understand what an ssh client does that is useful as a separate thing from your terminal of choice and openssh. Why wouldn't you always just ssh through your terminal?
- h4ch1 1y ago
  Can't comment for others but for me I find zoc or in that regard, a SSH client useful for the following 1. Remembering multiple hostnames and keys in a centralized location I manage a fleet of VPSs, whose hostnames, credentials I don't always remember off the top of my head. Writing ssh -i <identity> <hostname> gets tedious when I'm wrangling multiple of them over a single session 2. Faithful terminal emulation Zoc does a great job at emulating a plethora of terminals; it's not a do or die feature, but nice to have. 3. Separation of concerns This is a personal reason, but I like having two different applications while I am doing something that needs me to SSH to multiple VPSs, my main terminal will have local commands, local file editing, etc while my SSH client will only be used for remote connections and management. Just helps me keep things tidy for myself. Also as I mentioned in the parent I primarily use my main terminal to SSH; but for the cases mentioned it's nice to use a separate client.
  - l1ng0 1y ago
    I don't have your use-case, but I use the `.ssh/config` to give aliases (Host/Hostname) to my remote machines and can set the identity to use there (IdentityFile).
  - skydhash 1y ago
    > 1. Remembering multiple hostnames and keys in a centralized location There’s ssh_config(5) for that.
    - gausswho 1y ago
      This may be tinfoil, but this is the kinda configuration that I want version controlled, and I've never felt good about adding ~/.ssh/config (or anything within ~/.ssh) to my dotfiles because I definitely do not want its siblings in version control. And I don't trust myself not to bone myself. Instead I have some files elsewhere that I source into my terminal on start, containing: export M4MINI=192.168.1.204
alerighi 1y ago
What I like about Tabby is the fact that it has also options to connect to serial ports. I know that is not something useful to everyone, but working in an embedded using serial ports is something I do everyday. And I know there is Putty or Kitty or Teraterm or another serial connection tools, but most of them are either only for Windows, and don't allow all the options that I need (e.g. option to enable local line editing with history). The fact that it uses Electron... whatever, we are still full of Electron applications anyway, it's not an issue to me, I have enough RAM. I've jet to find something replacement that either has all the features of tabby (including support for connecting to serial ports) I would be happy to switch.
- tliltocatl 1y ago
  Just use picocom in any terminal you like: https://github.com/npat-efault/picocom https://github.com/npat-efault/picocom (unmaintained, but works fine and there is a ng fork: https://picocom-ng.oddbit.com/ https://picocom-ng.oddbit.com/). Or minicom or screen, but those are more bloated. There is little reason for SSH client to be integrated into a terminal emulator. Admittedly, my favorite kitty has a wrapper around OpenSSH, to fix terminfo and stuff, but it doesn't tries to re-implement the protocol. There is even less reason for serial port terminal to be a part of a terminal emulator - serial port terminal simply sets baudrate, remaps some control characters and gives you an escape key, it is not connected to rendering in any way.
tempodox 1y ago
Also, how many of the required NPM packages will be compromised?
naikrovek 1y ago
it is extremely weird to me that someone would write something like this in javascript. it is very, very wrong, to me. like ... "you need your head examined" wrong. That will be an unpopular opinion on this site, I know. Javascript is so slow, so bloated, and so far from the CPU that it is almost like building a railroad bridge using plastic. Could you build a railroad bridge out of plastic? yeah I'm sure that could be done. Is plastic the best material for this application? Not in the slightest. Javascript is not the right tool for anything outside of the browser, to me. But, it's 2025 and plastic is everywhere, even inside our brains, so what do I know?

by h4ch1 1y ago

ramon156 1y ago

Do people still use alacrity? It still feels like the most sane choice, although kitty and ghostty's rendering seems more robust. I guess I'll need to give them a go sometime

h4ch1 1y ago
Last I personally used Alacritty was 3-4 years back on Linux w/ wayland got some weird rendering bugs, switched to st (https://st.suckless.org/ https://st.suckless.org/) for a good while. When I got a Macbook last year, I did a "best terminal macos" search and evaluated multiple terminals; kitty, ghostty, iterm2 and wezterm. settled on ghostty because it just felt faster for terminal refreshes when I use vite, had tabs, could easily theme it to use ayu-dark. Nothing too extreme, just personal reasons iterm2 was fine as well, nothing special; wezterm and kitty just felt like linux apps that were on macos as well. YMMV.
k_bx 1y ago
Been driving my use for the last year or so, perfect as a thin wrapper around tmux (which is the same on macOS and Linux). I'll give iTerm2 another try, has many shiny features like touchID-sudo and such, otherwise don't understand what could possibly be better in ghostty/kitty
exq 1y ago
I still do. It's faster than Kitty and Ghostty, and I don't make use of the extra features those provide. I don't use glyphs nor rendered images, and I use a tiling WM so tabs aren't that important to me. Alacritty does what I need it to, and does it well.
- mwcz 1y ago
  That's exactly my experience. I dislike ligatures (I want to see the characters I typed) and tiling/tabs are anti-features if you have a tiling WM.
scabel 1y ago
I use alacritty. I tried ghostty but not supported on my old home mac, felt slower, and some of the config was not robust. Same with Wezterm, felt slow. Alacritty has worked with no problem everywhere I installed it. Only annoyance was once when the config changed from yaml to toml. Other than that, happy user of alacritty.
kubafu 1y ago
Happy alacritty user here (Wayland + sway)!
gausswho 1y ago
I did for several years but moved on to foot due to minor Wayland quirks I don't even remember.
alarcarittykg 1y ago
Definitely, been using it for years and it's one of the upgrades that has genuinely made every day noticeably better
mwcz 1y ago
I've been using alacritty for ... I don't know, but many years, and haven't once been tempted to switch away.
GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
chiming in as another alacritty (linux) user. kitty never seemed to be much of an improvement for my own workflows, and on my mac, ironically enough, ghostty was having issues with escape sequences when using the terraform CLI, so i stopped using it there.

swah 1y ago

The "native input editing" on Warp did spoil me though. The block feature is also super nice. Especially in the days of copying and pasting from AI tools. I tested all others (wezterm, ghostty, kitty, rio..) but this comfort trumps the speed or minimalism for me. Just want a Warp without any AI. (Just checked and the main toggle was enabled, will try to disable it again)

dfc 1y ago

I don't understand what an ssh client does that is useful as a separate thing from your terminal of choice and openssh. Why wouldn't you always just ssh through your terminal?

h4ch1 1y ago
Can't comment for others but for me I find zoc or in that regard, a SSH client useful for the following 1. Remembering multiple hostnames and keys in a centralized location I manage a fleet of VPSs, whose hostnames, credentials I don't always remember off the top of my head. Writing ssh -i <identity> <hostname> gets tedious when I'm wrangling multiple of them over a single session 2. Faithful terminal emulation Zoc does a great job at emulating a plethora of terminals; it's not a do or die feature, but nice to have. 3. Separation of concerns This is a personal reason, but I like having two different applications while I am doing something that needs me to SSH to multiple VPSs, my main terminal will have local commands, local file editing, etc while my SSH client will only be used for remote connections and management. Just helps me keep things tidy for myself. Also as I mentioned in the parent I primarily use my main terminal to SSH; but for the cases mentioned it's nice to use a separate client.
- l1ng0 1y ago
  I don't have your use-case, but I use the `.ssh/config` to give aliases (Host/Hostname) to my remote machines and can set the identity to use there (IdentityFile).
- skydhash 1y ago
  > 1. Remembering multiple hostnames and keys in a centralized location There’s ssh_config(5) for that.
  - gausswho 1y ago
    This may be tinfoil, but this is the kinda configuration that I want version controlled, and I've never felt good about adding ~/.ssh/config (or anything within ~/.ssh) to my dotfiles because I definitely do not want its siblings in version control. And I don't trust myself not to bone myself. Instead I have some files elsewhere that I source into my terminal on start, containing: export M4MINI=192.168.1.204

alerighi 1y ago

What I like about Tabby is the fact that it has also options to connect to serial ports. I know that is not something useful to everyone, but working in an embedded using serial ports is something I do everyday. And I know there is Putty or Kitty or Teraterm or another serial connection tools, but most of them are either only for Windows, and don't allow all the options that I need (e.g. option to enable local line editing with history). The fact that it uses Electron... whatever, we are still full of Electron applications anyway, it's not an issue to me, I have enough RAM. I've jet to find something replacement that either has all the features of tabby (including support for connecting to serial ports) I would be happy to switch.

tliltocatl 1y ago
Just use picocom in any terminal you like: https://github.com/npat-efault/picocom https://github.com/npat-efault/picocom (unmaintained, but works fine and there is a ng fork: https://picocom-ng.oddbit.com/ https://picocom-ng.oddbit.com/). Or minicom or screen, but those are more bloated. There is little reason for SSH client to be integrated into a terminal emulator. Admittedly, my favorite kitty has a wrapper around OpenSSH, to fix terminfo and stuff, but it doesn't tries to re-implement the protocol. There is even less reason for serial port terminal to be a part of a terminal emulator - serial port terminal simply sets baudrate, remaps some control characters and gives you an escape key, it is not connected to rendering in any way.

tempodox 1y ago

Also, how many of the required NPM packages will be compromised?

naikrovek 1y ago

it is extremely weird to me that someone would write something like this in javascript. it is very, very wrong, to me. like ... "you need your head examined" wrong. That will be an unpopular opinion on this site, I know. Javascript is so slow, so bloated, and so far from the CPU that it is almost like building a railroad bridge using plastic. Could you build a railroad bridge out of plastic? yeah I'm sure that could be done. Is plastic the best material for this application? Not in the slightest. Javascript is not the right tool for anything outside of the browser, to me. But, it's 2025 and plastic is everywhere, even inside our brains, so what do I know?