4 ms·

Consider that the videos of Oct 7 had a similar effect on lots of decent people. The un is the same now as it was before October 7. In gueterres words "it didn'

Consider that the videos of Oct 7 had a similar effect on lots of decent people. The un is the same now as it was before October 7. In gueterres words "it didn't happen in a vacuum". The complete loss of credibility for the un also didn't happen in a vacuum. Even if their report is true it will fall on deaf ears thanks in no small part to their lack of any sort of objectivity when it comes to Israel.

dmix 1y ago
Agreed, UN doesn't have a great reputation in America, I'm skeptical many people will care about this outside the media news cycle Pew says only 52% percent of Americans had a favorable opinion of UN in 2024 https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/09/05/most-people-in-35-countries-see-the-un-favorably-but-views-have-dipped-in-some-places/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/09/05/most-peop... On a political or legal level for Israel it might have more implications though, that is impossible for them to ignore, but ICJ will focus on the leaders who can avoid visiting certain countries...just like Putin.
- dragonwriter 1y ago
  > Agreed, UN doesn't have a great reputation in America, I'm skeptical many people will care about this outside the media news cycle. Lots of people will care, but it isn’t going to move a lot of opinions. > Pew says only 52% percent of Americans had a favorable opinion of UN in 2024 Yes, but it says 57% do in 2025, the first positive change in support since 2022. [0] But neither is that much more than the 50% that already think Israel is committing genocide [1], and the positions are probably significantly correlated, so this probably isn’t swaying many people that aren’t already convinced. > On a political or legal level it might have more implications though but ICJ will focus on the leaders who can avoid visiting certain countries. Always good to see assessments of international legal impacts from people who don’t know that the International Court of Justice deals exclusively with cases between states, and that the standing body that deals with individual offenses that are war crimes, crimes against humanity, and the crime of aggression is the International Criminal Court. [0] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/09/05/united-nations-seen-favorably-by-many-across-25-countries/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/09/05/united-na... [1] https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3929 https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3929
  - dmix 1y ago
    > Always good to see assessments of international legal impacts from people who don’t know that the International Court of Justice deals exclusively with cases between states, and that the standing body that deals with individual offenses that are war crimes, crimes against humanity, and the crime of aggression is the International Criminal Court. So what is your expert opinion then? What is the risk to the state of Israel itself if ICJ makes a case against them? Informing people > admonishing them
lazyasciiart 1y ago
October 7 made people in the US demand that their representatives stop supporting genocide? No, it didn’t. It made a lot of supposedly decent people support and even demand evil in their name. At that point you’re just defining “being a decent person” as “if nothing evil happens you won’t be evil” which doesn’t seem like a useful definition.
GoatInGrey 1y ago
This was me. I was browsing Hamas' Telegram account as they released the FPV videos that day. The two most disturbing scenes were the pantless body of a teenaged girl being burned amidst chanting of "Allahu Akbar", and militants scouring buildings for any person or pet they could kill and doing just that whenever they found someone. I learned a very uncomfortable—though valuable—lesson about humans that day.
- zipzapzip 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - AuthAuth 1y ago
    this is a baseless conspiracy. There is an entire report going over the operational failures that allowed oct 7th to happen and it wasnt the idf intentionally standing aside to let it happen. Also friend fire is predicted to be in the single digits and I dont think any has actually been confirmed.
    - pcthrowaway 1y ago
      Read the UN fact-finding report, particularly starting at page 44 ("Israeli Security Forces counter-offensive and the application of the ‘Hannibal Directive"): https://www.un.org/unispal/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/a-hrc-56-crp-3.pdf https://www.un.org/unispal/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/a-hrc-... It's true that the casualties of the Israeli counter-offensive can only conclusively be tied to ~20-30 casualties, but for many casualties it's unknown who is responsible, and there is (inconclusive) evidence Israeli fire resulted in the burning of 77 vehicles, many of which were returning to Gaza with captives (or their bodies) It seems unlikely to me there were fewer than 80 civilian casualties (out of 815) attributable to friendly fire, and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that number is over 200.
    - zipzapzip 1y ago
      [dead]
    - 1y ago
grimblee 1y ago
Too bad there weren't many good cameras around during the Nakba, my guess is we'd have some pretty revolting, hainous images to show the world. Hatred doesn't exist in a vacuum, october 7 happened for a reason. The jew got persecuted, that created Zionism which persecuted in return, the circle of hatred is going strong.
ponector 1y ago
That is interesting, why videos from Gaza has strong effects while Oct 7 don't. Or videos from Ukraine don't. Israel bombing a hospital in Gaza is genocide while russians bombing child hospital in Kyiv is ok. Unfortunately not all nations are equal and many suffers because of that.
- SXX 1y ago
  Unfortunately truth is: western societies don't actually give a shit about either. It just a "popular" trend to support Palestine / Gaza and for a while that was Ukraine. But reality is that people don't really care enough about any of it. Just like they didn't care about wars in Africa, genocide in Cambodia, etc. To actually solve big world problems it would take massive investments and sacrifice quality of life for many and increase taxes on rich. Obviously no one would agree. It's way beyond clicking "like" and "repost" buttons on social app or adding UTF-8 country flag to your name.
  - dandanua 1y ago
    It's the same story with the Epstein list. No one gives shit about victims. Trump and GOP did much more horrible things, like literally killing people with their actions. But sex with underage girls takes all the attention and the blame. So all other Trump's crimes, which are countless to this point, are getting faded.
- FridayoLeary 1y ago
  Lets address the elephant in the room. First of all, to be fair no one is ok with russia bombing hospitals. It's just that at this stage sanctions have been maxed out. Now from watching the coverage of this war you can't help but come to the conclusion that there's an organised but invisible movement opposing the war. The various humanitarian bodies and news outlets like al jazeera and bbc all quote each other in a self reinforcing loop of anti israel talk. If it's not an organised conspiracy at least it's a very strong convergence of interests giving the impression of one. Historically the main opposition to Israel comes from the Arabs with the European countries joining in with various levels of enthusiasm mainly for the pragmatic reason that the Arabs have all the oil. The anti american block is also anti israel because that goes against US interests. It's not surprising then that the UN would be completely taken over by anti israel groups. It's basic maths. But my point is what is the historic motivation for the anti israel movements? It's definitely not out of great sympathy for the palestinians although that's definitely why most Westerners are pro palestinian, but that's just marketing. I think i've established fairly well it all comes back to the Arabs. And their motivation without a question is genocidal anti semitism. They are just upset the Germans didn't finish off their job and they are taking everyone else along for the ride. I'm not saying there can be no legitimate opposition to Israel, but it's my belief, backed up by a certain amount of historical evidence that most of the opposition from official sources has its roots in anti semitism.
buyucu 1y ago
The only people that accuse the UN for 'loss of credibility' are the religious fanatics in Tel Aviv, who are angry at the UN for not indulging their 3000-year old mythological delusions.

dmix 1y ago

Agreed, UN doesn't have a great reputation in America, I'm skeptical many people will care about this outside the media news cycle Pew says only 52% percent of Americans had a favorable opinion of UN in 2024 https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/09/05/most-people-in-35-countries-see-the-un-favorably-but-views-have-dipped-in-some-places/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/09/05/most-peop... On a political or legal level for Israel it might have more implications though, that is impossible for them to ignore, but ICJ will focus on the leaders who can avoid visiting certain countries...just like Putin.

dragonwriter 1y ago
> Agreed, UN doesn't have a great reputation in America, I'm skeptical many people will care about this outside the media news cycle. Lots of people will care, but it isn’t going to move a lot of opinions. > Pew says only 52% percent of Americans had a favorable opinion of UN in 2024 Yes, but it says 57% do in 2025, the first positive change in support since 2022. [0] But neither is that much more than the 50% that already think Israel is committing genocide [1], and the positions are probably significantly correlated, so this probably isn’t swaying many people that aren’t already convinced. > On a political or legal level it might have more implications though but ICJ will focus on the leaders who can avoid visiting certain countries. Always good to see assessments of international legal impacts from people who don’t know that the International Court of Justice deals exclusively with cases between states, and that the standing body that deals with individual offenses that are war crimes, crimes against humanity, and the crime of aggression is the International Criminal Court. [0] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/09/05/united-nations-seen-favorably-by-many-across-25-countries/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/09/05/united-na... [1] https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3929 https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3929
- dmix 1y ago
  > Always good to see assessments of international legal impacts from people who don’t know that the International Court of Justice deals exclusively with cases between states, and that the standing body that deals with individual offenses that are war crimes, crimes against humanity, and the crime of aggression is the International Criminal Court. So what is your expert opinion then? What is the risk to the state of Israel itself if ICJ makes a case against them? Informing people > admonishing them

lazyasciiart 1y ago

October 7 made people in the US demand that their representatives stop supporting genocide? No, it didn’t. It made a lot of supposedly decent people support and even demand evil in their name. At that point you’re just defining “being a decent person” as “if nothing evil happens you won’t be evil” which doesn’t seem like a useful definition.

GoatInGrey 1y ago

This was me. I was browsing Hamas' Telegram account as they released the FPV videos that day. The two most disturbing scenes were the pantless body of a teenaged girl being burned amidst chanting of "Allahu Akbar", and militants scouring buildings for any person or pet they could kill and doing just that whenever they found someone. I learned a very uncomfortable—though valuable—lesson about humans that day.

zipzapzip 1y ago
[flagged]
- AuthAuth 1y ago
  this is a baseless conspiracy. There is an entire report going over the operational failures that allowed oct 7th to happen and it wasnt the idf intentionally standing aside to let it happen. Also friend fire is predicted to be in the single digits and I dont think any has actually been confirmed.
  - pcthrowaway 1y ago
    Read the UN fact-finding report, particularly starting at page 44 ("Israeli Security Forces counter-offensive and the application of the ‘Hannibal Directive"): https://www.un.org/unispal/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/a-hrc-56-crp-3.pdf https://www.un.org/unispal/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/a-hrc-... It's true that the casualties of the Israeli counter-offensive can only conclusively be tied to ~20-30 casualties, but for many casualties it's unknown who is responsible, and there is (inconclusive) evidence Israeli fire resulted in the burning of 77 vehicles, many of which were returning to Gaza with captives (or their bodies) It seems unlikely to me there were fewer than 80 civilian casualties (out of 815) attributable to friendly fire, and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that number is over 200.
  - zipzapzip 1y ago
    [dead]
  - 1y ago

grimblee 1y ago

Too bad there weren't many good cameras around during the Nakba, my guess is we'd have some pretty revolting, hainous images to show the world. Hatred doesn't exist in a vacuum, october 7 happened for a reason. The jew got persecuted, that created Zionism which persecuted in return, the circle of hatred is going strong.

ponector 1y ago

That is interesting, why videos from Gaza has strong effects while Oct 7 don't. Or videos from Ukraine don't. Israel bombing a hospital in Gaza is genocide while russians bombing child hospital in Kyiv is ok. Unfortunately not all nations are equal and many suffers because of that.

SXX 1y ago
Unfortunately truth is: western societies don't actually give a shit about either. It just a "popular" trend to support Palestine / Gaza and for a while that was Ukraine. But reality is that people don't really care enough about any of it. Just like they didn't care about wars in Africa, genocide in Cambodia, etc. To actually solve big world problems it would take massive investments and sacrifice quality of life for many and increase taxes on rich. Obviously no one would agree. It's way beyond clicking "like" and "repost" buttons on social app or adding UTF-8 country flag to your name.
- dandanua 1y ago
  It's the same story with the Epstein list. No one gives shit about victims. Trump and GOP did much more horrible things, like literally killing people with their actions. But sex with underage girls takes all the attention and the blame. So all other Trump's crimes, which are countless to this point, are getting faded.
FridayoLeary 1y ago
Lets address the elephant in the room. First of all, to be fair no one is ok with russia bombing hospitals. It's just that at this stage sanctions have been maxed out. Now from watching the coverage of this war you can't help but come to the conclusion that there's an organised but invisible movement opposing the war. The various humanitarian bodies and news outlets like al jazeera and bbc all quote each other in a self reinforcing loop of anti israel talk. If it's not an organised conspiracy at least it's a very strong convergence of interests giving the impression of one. Historically the main opposition to Israel comes from the Arabs with the European countries joining in with various levels of enthusiasm mainly for the pragmatic reason that the Arabs have all the oil. The anti american block is also anti israel because that goes against US interests. It's not surprising then that the UN would be completely taken over by anti israel groups. It's basic maths. But my point is what is the historic motivation for the anti israel movements? It's definitely not out of great sympathy for the palestinians although that's definitely why most Westerners are pro palestinian, but that's just marketing. I think i've established fairly well it all comes back to the Arabs. And their motivation without a question is genocidal anti semitism. They are just upset the Germans didn't finish off their job and they are taking everyone else along for the ride. I'm not saying there can be no legitimate opposition to Israel, but it's my belief, backed up by a certain amount of historical evidence that most of the opposition from official sources has its roots in anti semitism.

buyucu 1y ago

The only people that accuse the UN for 'loss of credibility' are the religious fanatics in Tel Aviv, who are angry at the UN for not indulging their 3000-year old mythological delusions.