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One thing I don’t understand is why so many appreciate the Everglades. To me a landscape infested with aggressive animals (gators) doesn’t sound attractive or s

One thing I don’t understand is why so many appreciate the Everglades. To me a landscape infested with aggressive animals (gators) doesn’t sound attractive or safe. Between them and the invasive snakes I feel like you would need to be on guard all the time. Maybe drain it, replace it with different animals that are friendly, and then refill it. I’m only sort of joking.

CGMthrowaway 1y ago
During the lockdown I canoed thru the everglades and camped on the islands as it was one of the only places open. It's a lot more than gators. I saw a family of dolphins teaching their child to swim and jump. The fishing is incredible. The gators arent the worst pest (the biting insects are). You can spot manatee. Of course it's a paradise for birds. And that way that mangroves ultimately create dry land from nothing is quite amazing.
jason-phillips 1y ago
I used to swim with alligators in the bayou when I was a kid in the 1980s. They're not so bad.
- Dilettante_ 1y ago
  Amos Moses, is that you?
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
hnuser123456 1y ago
It sounds like hurricanes keep it topped off. So then what, you design some poison to only attack gators, then find out later it poisons people too? Because draining it and then discovering that underground wells turn to saltwater isn't enough?
- hedora 1y ago
  It’s fine. Future generations can just put the freshwater back in the wells, like we currently do to keep Silicon Valley from sinking into the bay.
ux266478 1y ago
Alligators are the exact opposite of aggressive. If you walk up and pat one on the head it'll probably just hiss and start slinking away at the speed of syrup. You should be more afraid of the spiders and blood-sucking insects.
- pharrington 1y ago
  I'm way more afraid of the humans that want to drain and eradicate the native population of the Everglades!
  - ux266478 1y ago
    Even putting aside that it destroys incredible natural beauty for land that's not even productively useful, it astounds me that people still buy into major terraforming projects. Every single time it's had absolutely horrendous consequences often with millions of human deaths attached. Don't make large changes to chaotic systems!
    - potato3732842 1y ago
      >Even putting aside that it destroys incredible natural beauty for land that's not even productively useful, it astounds me that people still buy into major terraforming projects. Every single time it's had absolutely horrendous consequences often with millions of human deaths attached. Don't make large changes to chaotic systems! Ah, yes, terrible consequences, such as, the irrigation and suitability for farmland of central California, the lack of frequent flooding of the Mississippi river and tributaries and the present dryness of the Netherlands. I don't think draining the everglades is tractable and I think it's more valuable as is since you're not gonna out farm the midwest. But it's really easy to be on a high horse and not appreciate the successful projects that we benefit from the results of.
      - jonstewart 1y ago
        It does not take much familiarity with the history of Mississippi flood control and the Army Corps of Engineers to realize how risky, fraught, and short-sighted the whole project has been. The delta's dying and the Old River Control Structure is one bad day away from diverting the entire river to the Atchafalaya. _The Great River_ by Boyce Upholt from last year is a good place to start learning about the Mississippi.
soperj 1y ago
I feel the same way about Miami.
- fijiaarone 1y ago
  Everything from Miami to Ft. Myers was the Everglades.
- NickC25 1y ago
  I live in SoFLA in the Miami metro area. People can't stop building here. I don't get it. It's going to be under water in under 50 years. Yet for some reason there's a 100+ story building going up across from Bayfront Park and Ken Griffin is spending a billion on a massive tower in Brickell.
rexpop 1y ago
The perspective that nature, including the Everglades, should be "attractive or safe" for human convenience is profoundly misguided and chauvinistic. Nature does not exist for humanity's comfort or aesthetic preferences—its value and purpose are independent of human desires or perceptions. The Everglades is a complex, irreplaceable ecosystem essential for biodiversity, climate regulation, water filtration, and flood control. It hosts countless species found nowhere else on Earth, including apex predators like alligators, which are critical to the ecological balance. To suggest draining such a vital natural landscape and replacing its inhabitants with "friendly" animals ignores the intricate interdependencies that sustain these ecosystems. This not only threatens extinction of unique species but undermines the health of the entire region, affecting millions of people who rely on its ecosystem services. Demanding nature conform to a sanitized or human-safe version reflects a narrow, anthropocentric arrogance. The wildness of the Everglades is part of its profound purpose and beauty. Any view that diminishes this is reductive, environmentally ignorant, and ethically troubling. Nature is not a backdrop to human desires but a living system demanding protection, understanding, and awe.
- vixen99 1y ago
  I have to say - thank you for that!
- nlitened 1y ago
  > Nature does not exist for humanity's comfort or aesthetic preferences To be fair, in most religions (including christianity and atheism) it kinda does
  - goatlover 1y ago
    Doesn't matter what those religions claim, nature existed long before humans and exists beyond humans and will exist long after us. On earth, there are living creatures with their own motivations that inhabit all the remote wildernesses and deep seas. And life may exist on other planets.
    - nlitened 1y ago
hunter-gatherer 1y ago
You'd make a terrible wildlife biologist.
tbyehl 1y ago
> Maybe drain it, replace it with different animals that are friendly, and then refill it. I’m only sort of joking. It's not a zoo. Jungle Island might be more your speed. Staff have chastised me for rubbing the kangaroos' bellies, saying they really don't like that, but in my defense he rolled over for me to do it. YMMV. What lead me to appreciating the Everglades was randomly deciding to go to Shark Valley / Bobcat Boardwalk Trail on some cold day in February. The annoying bugs were mostly gone to wherever they go when it's cold, the 'gators were lounging around trying to catch some warmth, and the anhingas and other water birds were quite active. I caught a guided walking tour somewhere and what really stuck with me was how every tiny rise in elevation up to a few feet completely changes the ecosystem. I'd lived in Florida practically my whole life until then and never really "seen" that but from then on I could never not see it. I left 15 years ago and whenever I drive home for a visit, crossing that threshold into southern Florida where I start seeing it again brings me comfort. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everglades#Ecosystems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everglades#Ecosystems
internet_points 1y ago
I have never been there and don't plan to. Still I wish for it to exist, so the many complicated, wild, strange and wonderful creatures and plants that have been dependent on that ecosystem for ages can continue to exist.
bubblyworld 1y ago
I think there's a bit of "Chesterton's fence" with these issues. If you don't know enough about the ecosystem to appreciate its complexity (aggressive animals are a tiny part of what's going on there) then you definitely shouldn't be allowed to remove or change it. Human ecological interventions have a bad track record.

CGMthrowaway 1y ago

During the lockdown I canoed thru the everglades and camped on the islands as it was one of the only places open. It's a lot more than gators. I saw a family of dolphins teaching their child to swim and jump. The fishing is incredible. The gators arent the worst pest (the biting insects are). You can spot manatee. Of course it's a paradise for birds. And that way that mangroves ultimately create dry land from nothing is quite amazing.

jason-phillips 1y ago

I used to swim with alligators in the bayou when I was a kid in the 1980s. They're not so bad.

Dilettante_ 1y ago
Amos Moses, is that you?
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]

hnuser123456 1y ago

It sounds like hurricanes keep it topped off. So then what, you design some poison to only attack gators, then find out later it poisons people too? Because draining it and then discovering that underground wells turn to saltwater isn't enough?

hedora 1y ago
It’s fine. Future generations can just put the freshwater back in the wells, like we currently do to keep Silicon Valley from sinking into the bay.

ux266478 1y ago

Alligators are the exact opposite of aggressive. If you walk up and pat one on the head it'll probably just hiss and start slinking away at the speed of syrup. You should be more afraid of the spiders and blood-sucking insects.

pharrington 1y ago
I'm way more afraid of the humans that want to drain and eradicate the native population of the Everglades!
- ux266478 1y ago
  Even putting aside that it destroys incredible natural beauty for land that's not even productively useful, it astounds me that people still buy into major terraforming projects. Every single time it's had absolutely horrendous consequences often with millions of human deaths attached. Don't make large changes to chaotic systems!
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    >Even putting aside that it destroys incredible natural beauty for land that's not even productively useful, it astounds me that people still buy into major terraforming projects. Every single time it's had absolutely horrendous consequences often with millions of human deaths attached. Don't make large changes to chaotic systems! Ah, yes, terrible consequences, such as, the irrigation and suitability for farmland of central California, the lack of frequent flooding of the Mississippi river and tributaries and the present dryness of the Netherlands. I don't think draining the everglades is tractable and I think it's more valuable as is since you're not gonna out farm the midwest. But it's really easy to be on a high horse and not appreciate the successful projects that we benefit from the results of.
    - jonstewart 1y ago
      It does not take much familiarity with the history of Mississippi flood control and the Army Corps of Engineers to realize how risky, fraught, and short-sighted the whole project has been. The delta's dying and the Old River Control Structure is one bad day away from diverting the entire river to the Atchafalaya. _The Great River_ by Boyce Upholt from last year is a good place to start learning about the Mississippi.

soperj 1y ago

I feel the same way about Miami.

fijiaarone 1y ago
Everything from Miami to Ft. Myers was the Everglades.
NickC25 1y ago
I live in SoFLA in the Miami metro area. People can't stop building here. I don't get it. It's going to be under water in under 50 years. Yet for some reason there's a 100+ story building going up across from Bayfront Park and Ken Griffin is spending a billion on a massive tower in Brickell.

rexpop 1y ago

The perspective that nature, including the Everglades, should be "attractive or safe" for human convenience is profoundly misguided and chauvinistic. Nature does not exist for humanity's comfort or aesthetic preferences—its value and purpose are independent of human desires or perceptions. The Everglades is a complex, irreplaceable ecosystem essential for biodiversity, climate regulation, water filtration, and flood control. It hosts countless species found nowhere else on Earth, including apex predators like alligators, which are critical to the ecological balance. To suggest draining such a vital natural landscape and replacing its inhabitants with "friendly" animals ignores the intricate interdependencies that sustain these ecosystems. This not only threatens extinction of unique species but undermines the health of the entire region, affecting millions of people who rely on its ecosystem services. Demanding nature conform to a sanitized or human-safe version reflects a narrow, anthropocentric arrogance. The wildness of the Everglades is part of its profound purpose and beauty. Any view that diminishes this is reductive, environmentally ignorant, and ethically troubling. Nature is not a backdrop to human desires but a living system demanding protection, understanding, and awe.

vixen99 1y ago
I have to say - thank you for that!
nlitened 1y ago
> Nature does not exist for humanity's comfort or aesthetic preferences To be fair, in most religions (including christianity and atheism) it kinda does
- goatlover 1y ago
  Doesn't matter what those religions claim, nature existed long before humans and exists beyond humans and will exist long after us. On earth, there are living creatures with their own motivations that inhabit all the remote wildernesses and deep seas. And life may exist on other planets.
  - nlitened 1y ago

hunter-gatherer 1y ago

You'd make a terrible wildlife biologist.

tbyehl 1y ago

> Maybe drain it, replace it with different animals that are friendly, and then refill it. I’m only sort of joking. It's not a zoo. Jungle Island might be more your speed. Staff have chastised me for rubbing the kangaroos' bellies, saying they really don't like that, but in my defense he rolled over for me to do it. YMMV. What lead me to appreciating the Everglades was randomly deciding to go to Shark Valley / Bobcat Boardwalk Trail on some cold day in February. The annoying bugs were mostly gone to wherever they go when it's cold, the 'gators were lounging around trying to catch some warmth, and the anhingas and other water birds were quite active. I caught a guided walking tour somewhere and what really stuck with me was how every tiny rise in elevation up to a few feet completely changes the ecosystem. I'd lived in Florida practically my whole life until then and never really "seen" that but from then on I could never not see it. I left 15 years ago and whenever I drive home for a visit, crossing that threshold into southern Florida where I start seeing it again brings me comfort. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everglades#Ecosystems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everglades#Ecosystems

internet_points 1y ago

I have never been there and don't plan to. Still I wish for it to exist, so the many complicated, wild, strange and wonderful creatures and plants that have been dependent on that ecosystem for ages can continue to exist.

bubblyworld 1y ago

I think there's a bit of "Chesterton's fence" with these issues. If you don't know enough about the ecosystem to appreciate its complexity (aggressive animals are a tiny part of what's going on there) then you definitely shouldn't be allowed to remove or change it. Human ecological interventions have a bad track record.