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Comments on this post are disabled for new accounts, but in the era of anti-BDS regulation and other measures aimed specifically at curtailing practical freedom
by pxc 1y ago
Comments on this post are disabled for new accounts, but in the era of anti-BDS regulation and other measures aimed specifically at curtailing practical freedom of speech surrounding this conflict, can we really comment freely on this without anonymity? The vast majority (38/50) of US states have passed some form of anti-BDS legislation. We can also expect corporate retaliation against employees who speak about this issue in a "wrong way".
- prawn 1y agoFor anyone else not familiar with "anti-BDS": "Anti-BDS laws are legislation that retaliate against those that engage in Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions. With regard to the Arab–Israeli conflict, many supporters of the State of Israel have often advocated or implemented anti-BDS laws, which effectively seek to retaliate against people and organizations engaged in boycotts of Israel-affiliated entities." From Wikipedia. Also: "Not to be confused with Anti-BDSM laws."
- King-Aaron 1y agoFrom a historical, economic, social perspective... Why does Israel hold so much power over the world?
- idle_zealot 1y agoThe theory I've been operating under is that Israel was created as a pretty bad solution to displaced Jews post-WWII, and operates essentially as a vassal state of the US's commercial military interests as a totally intractable perma-war in the region to ensure that even in lieu of other conflict taxpayer money can continuously be laundered to them in the form of expended munitions. There's obviously a lot more going on from a social/religious perspective, but I'm prone to thinking of large-scale shifts and trends in terms of economic incentives.
- gerash 1y agoI believe it's the other way around: The western governments, media and legislative bodies are under Israeli control. Have you seen how the US Congress, half of which boos the US presidents along party lines, suddenly all rise up and fall in line when Netanyahu visits the Congress? https://idsb.tmgrup.com.tr/ly/uploads/images/2024/07/28/thumbs/800x531/338788.jpg?v=1722160047 https://idsb.tmgrup.com.tr/ly/uploads/images/2024/07/28/thum... Have you see the strange photos of all US politicians with yamakas near this wall in Israel as if they're pledging allegiance to something? It's humiliating
- idle_zealot 1y agoIt is humiliating, but that makes no sense at all from a power dynamics perspective. Israel is just not that powerful, economically, militarily, or socially. The US's military industrial complex is, and basically every politician is beholden to powerful capital interests, the MIC among them. Unconditional and enthusiastic support of Israel, then, is a proxy for support of those financial interests, hence the visits, deference, etc. This backed up by the very real threat of a handful of powerful lobbying groups that will and have coordinated to redirect funding to opponents of anyone they deem insufficiently deferential.
- aa-jv 1y ago> Israel is just not that powerful, economically, militarily, or socially. Its not just funding and religious indoctrination. The very, very serious question that nobody seems to have the courage to ask, is this: where are Israels nukes? The answer to that question might provide some insight into why things are so supplicant in certain halls of power ...
- boppo1 1y agoAre you fsuggesting Israel has a nuclear sub off the east coast or something? Why would nukes in Israel influence washington?
- tguvot 1y agowhat power exactly Israel holds over the world ?
- evang7 1y agoAnother possible explanation: Israel is a leading spyware manufacturer (e.g. Pegasus). They are probably involved in 'sensitive' eavesdropping operations world-wide, and quite likely, have data that would scare the world's leaders to even think not supporting Israel.
- bayindirh 1y agoIsn't that found out that the "alternative" Signal client US Government officials are unofficially using is "backing-up" messages to company's server (probably in Israel). This is a huge leverage.
- _DeadFred_ 1y ago[flagged]
- sambuccid 1y agoI get this point, but also we shouldn't confuse "the jews people" with the current government of israel. I don't believe for a second that the common jews people want to influence other countries or do anythind "bad". But at the same time can believe that the current government of israel, that has some extremist parties inside, can try to influence foreign policy in many ways, potentially even extreme ways.
- _DeadFred_ 1y agoThe United States has had this relationship with Israel for how long? Trying to tie the relationship to Epstein or throwing out random 'I'm just asking questions' isn't legitimate and is purely just a smear attempt. The USA and Israel have a long and historic relationship no need for conspiracy theories that vear really close to anti-semitic tropes. Funny how these baseless, historically disproven (did Epstein/Telegram go back in time and create the US/Israel relationship?) unserious smear attempts are 'legitimate' discussion when it comes to Israel, but not really any other discussion. This is no different than the disgusting BS pushing Israel somehow is responsible for Charlie Kirk. “Never believe that antisemites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The antisemite has the right to play. They even like to play with discourse, for by giving ridiculous reasons they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutor. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert.”
- pyrale 1y agoIt doesn’t. The US does, however, and the US has for decades put all of its weight behind Israel. Without that, Israel would probably have faced the same fate as apartheid South Africa. The current genocide is to blame on the US as much as on Israel.
- hvb2 1y agoYou're explaining what people can see. The question was why this happens though. Why does this one country have such unwavering support? Why is the current president for example not trying to save some money by just not giving it to them?
- Fluorescence 1y agoMost of geopolitics is geography and Israel has greatly benefitted as a unique bridgehead in hostile territory for a changing roster of great-powers and states against another foe e.g. - Early Soviet support to undermine British Imperialism - Balfour Declaration from Britain vs. Ottomans - Nuclear tech from France vs. Nasser and anti-colonialism - Military/Nuclear from Apartheid South Africa vs. shared pariah status - Hegemonic power from the US vs. every unaligned country including Cold War, OPEC, Arab Nationalism, Islamism The more recent metastasising of support into a political-religous-racial belief-system is even more troubling than the apocalyptic machinations of great powers because pure ideology departs from reason itself and is untethered to any care for the consequences.
- dragonwriter 1y ago> Why does Israel hold so much power over the world? Because it holds so much power over the government of the United States, and thereby benefits from the power the United States has over the world.
- tmnvix 1y agoWorth having a listen to Aaron Good, author of 'American Exception' being interviewed by Jeffrey Sachs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXvuOG33zLs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXvuOG33zLs Some of the gist of what he talks about: Just as there is an 'underworld', there is also a corresponding and related 'overworld'. Essentially organised crime, corporations, and security services cooperating in nefarious ways (often usurping - though not always violently - the power of states). It's arguable that Israel is particularly interested and involved in this 'overworld'. See the early history of the CIA, FBI, Meyer Lansky and the mob, Epstein, the reach and effectiveness of Mossad relative to other similar organisations, etc. Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like, but I believe that most significant western leaders have probably been compromised in some way by 'overworld' influences. Look at what happens to 'the wrong type of candidate' that gets too close to power. Jeremy Corban was thoroughly and dishonestly scandalised by a campaign instigated and supported by Israeli interests. Why? The complete bandwagon type behaviour of mainstream British press of the left and right in that campaign is very reminiscent of the way recent mainstream media coverage reports on Gaza - it looks coordinated and in unison. Of course, I'm probably wrong. Just trying to make sense of the madness I see around me. TLDR; My theory is that Israel has corrupted our media and politicians through a nexus of nefarious actors that Aaron Good refers to as the 'overworld'.
- navigate8310 1y agoIs Israel able to cast this "overworld" power over China?
- tmnvix 1y agoNo. But interestingly Netanyahu just called out China as a state conspiring against Israel's interests. So rather than trying to corrupt China's political system in their favour the approach appears to be to frame them as an explicit enemy. I'm sure we'll start to hear more of this from Israel regarding China.
- aa-jv 1y ago>Why does Israel hold so much power over the world? Undeclared and un-identified nukes.
- account42 1y agoBecause protecting Israel is part of America's mythology.
- darthrupert 1y agoArab nations have made invasions to Europe on a regular basis throughout history. That practically stopped when Israel was created. Israel has been an amazing success for Western security.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- dragonwriter 1y ago> The vast majority (38/50) of US states have passed some form of anti-BDS legislation. “Some form of” is doing a lot of work in that sentence, to the point of being dishonest propaganda. E.g., California is counted as one of those states based on AB 2844 of 2016. Which, to be fair, started out [0] as an actual anti-BDS bill (targeting state contracting only, but still an anti-BDS bill.) But the form that actually passed and became law does nothing that actually impacts BDS; it requires that state contractors with contracts of over $100,000 certify under penalty of perjury that (1) they are in compliance with California’s Unruh Civil Rights Act and Fair Employment and Housing Act, and that (2) any policy they have against a “sovereign nation or peoples recognized by the government of the United States of America”, explicitly including but not limited to Israel, is not applied in a way which discriminates in violation of either the Unruh Civil Rights Act or the Fair Employment and Housing Act. It is not, in any meaningful sense, an anti-BDS law. [0] Well, “started out” isn’t really true, either, since it was introduced as a technical change the an environmental health law replacing "Department of Health Services” with “Department of Public Health” in one section of law, reflecting a reorganization that had occurred subsequent to the law passing, went through a “gut and amend” switch to become a bill that would add new sampling requirements for drinking water, then went through another “gut and amend” to become an anti-BDS bill focussed on public contracting. But then it went through a number of more regular amendments which stripped out all the anti-BDS parts—both the operative anti-BDS language and the proposed legislative findings and declarations of purpose at the opening, replacing both the operative provisionsn and the findings and declaration portions with anti-discrimination rather than anti-BDS provisions.
- thrance 1y agoI think it's a legitimate worry, but I don't think using our old accounts give us any less protections than throwaway accounts. And I doubt the people that would make such accounts have anything of interest to add to the discussion.
- jjani 1y agoThis is contradictory. If it's a legitimate worry, then it's reasonable for reasonable people to want to make such accounts. And reasonable people are exactly those who have things of interest. From an HNer I'd also expect the understanding that yes, old accounts does give less protections, trivially from an information theory perspective.
- dang 1y ago> Comments on this post are disabled for new accounts I put that restriction on the thread when I started to notice brand new accounts showing up to post abusively (call them trolls if you like). There's no intention to prevent legit anonymous comments, but we have to do what we can to protect this place from complete conflagration. I'll turn that restriction off now.
- pxc 1y agoThanks. I appreciate both your response and the difficulty of moderating discussions on this topic.