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Don’t forget Zip2, PayPal, Neuralink, OpenAI, and The Boring Company. There are large swaths of people that accept headlines as fact and/or cannot or will not

Don’t forget Zip2, PayPal, Neuralink, OpenAI, and The Boring Company. There are large swaths of people that accept headlines as fact and/or cannot or will not grapple with nuance and complexity (“I think Elon’s a jerk and he is a formidable engineer.”) Perhaps it’s a sign of these polarized times, or, as I believe, people have always been like this. We just have more time and resources to dedicate to outrage and flamewarring than we did in the past.

esalman 1y ago
I don't deny his accomplishments. On the contrary, I think he is a genius. It's just that he is an extremely, damagingly biased genius. https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1240754657263144960 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1240754657263144960
- testing22321 1y ago
  Genuine question - are there (or have there been ) any geniuses that are not unhinged?
  - juliendorra 1y ago
    Yes, there has been nice geniuses (ie. people with extreme talent), Mozart was for example a good person. Da Vinci (if a little sycophantic when young) was not unhinged at all nor abusive and was appreciated. But since romantism we have built this image of the genius as necessarily abusive. I’m sure abusive genius are very visible (by definition?) and that abusive people tend to monopolize more ressources too. (Like these tenured professors that use their students to advance their own career)
    - n4r9 1y ago
      Einstein, Euler, and Darwin were also nice people by many accounts.
      - boringg 1y ago
        I think you guys shouldn't be comparing “geniuses” because i don't think thats the forcing function here (ie IQ and ability). The forcing function is having so much responsibility and stress from running so many companies. You have no extra bandwidth for anything. All your time is spent. So maybe look at comparable people with insane schedules/workloads/very high pressure situations.
        n4r9 1y ago
        Fair. With Elon it feels like there's an obsessiveness that drives him to take on so much responsibility. And as you say, that can affect what he says publicly.
        boringg 1y ago
        True -- also I wouldn't say Elon is a genius. I feel thats a term for people who solve deep intractable physics/math problems. Elon's admirable attributes are that he is an insane capital allocator, has a very acute engineering mind (rare for leadership), curious mind, sees the future paths, dedicated focus and is an unabashed salesman of his products and philosophy (maybe this one isn't as admirable but its critical to his success).
  - lmm 1y ago
    Euler was famously a genius and a well-tempered family man.
oblio 1y ago
He was ousted from Paypal before anything major happened, he was basically just a shareholder. The Boring Company is an obvious bust. So is the Hyperloop. Neuralink is another likely bust. Tesla solar is going nowhere. The Cybertruck is a millstone around Tesla's neck. Etc, etc.
- rstuart4133 1y ago
  Usually Elon's technical flaws aren't on display, or at least he covers them well. For example while it's true FSD hasn't worked out, but I don't know you could say at the time "most competent AI devs knew it wouldn't work out". However, when Elon attempted to move PayPal from Linux to Windows, most competent software engineers would have advised against it. Paypal isn't an example of Elon's genius in action - it's the opposite.
  - terminalshort 1y ago
    > FSD hasn't worked out Says who? I've tried it and the capabilities are amazing. If you told me 10 years ago that I would be able to buy this in 2025 I wouldn't have believed you.
    - vachina 1y ago
      Yeah HN hivemind is wild. FSD is something you can buy and use RIGHT NOW. Autonomous driving in YOUR HANDS. Waymo still feels like a school project.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - metabagel 1y ago
        Tesla is level 2. Waymo is level 4.
    - rstuart4133 1y ago
      Says me, who owns a Y that has the FSD package. Random braking on a highway, indicator lights coming on for no apparent reason, windscreen wipers the start on a dry day, attempts move through a red light. None of those things are common, none are serious if your hands are on the wheel and you are giving it your full attention. It's a serviceable attempt at FSD Level 3, and auto park works well. But when I bought it, Elon was promoting hiring out your car as a FSD level 5 taxi when you weren't using it. If I regularly took my hands off the steering wheel and went for a snooze (if that was possible, which it isn't because they would be sued within an inch of their life), I'd be dead by now.

esalman 1y ago

I don't deny his accomplishments. On the contrary, I think he is a genius. It's just that he is an extremely, damagingly biased genius. https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1240754657263144960 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1240754657263144960

testing22321 1y ago
Genuine question - are there (or have there been ) any geniuses that are not unhinged?
- juliendorra 1y ago
  Yes, there has been nice geniuses (ie. people with extreme talent), Mozart was for example a good person. Da Vinci (if a little sycophantic when young) was not unhinged at all nor abusive and was appreciated. But since romantism we have built this image of the genius as necessarily abusive. I’m sure abusive genius are very visible (by definition?) and that abusive people tend to monopolize more ressources too. (Like these tenured professors that use their students to advance their own career)
  - n4r9 1y ago
    Einstein, Euler, and Darwin were also nice people by many accounts.
    - boringg 1y ago
      I think you guys shouldn't be comparing “geniuses” because i don't think thats the forcing function here (ie IQ and ability). The forcing function is having so much responsibility and stress from running so many companies. You have no extra bandwidth for anything. All your time is spent. So maybe look at comparable people with insane schedules/workloads/very high pressure situations.
      - n4r9 1y ago
        Fair. With Elon it feels like there's an obsessiveness that drives him to take on so much responsibility. And as you say, that can affect what he says publicly.
        boringg 1y ago
        True -- also I wouldn't say Elon is a genius. I feel thats a term for people who solve deep intractable physics/math problems. Elon's admirable attributes are that he is an insane capital allocator, has a very acute engineering mind (rare for leadership), curious mind, sees the future paths, dedicated focus and is an unabashed salesman of his products and philosophy (maybe this one isn't as admirable but its critical to his success).
- lmm 1y ago
  Euler was famously a genius and a well-tempered family man.

oblio 1y ago

He was ousted from Paypal before anything major happened, he was basically just a shareholder. The Boring Company is an obvious bust. So is the Hyperloop. Neuralink is another likely bust. Tesla solar is going nowhere. The Cybertruck is a millstone around Tesla's neck. Etc, etc.

rstuart4133 1y ago
Usually Elon's technical flaws aren't on display, or at least he covers them well. For example while it's true FSD hasn't worked out, but I don't know you could say at the time "most competent AI devs knew it wouldn't work out". However, when Elon attempted to move PayPal from Linux to Windows, most competent software engineers would have advised against it. Paypal isn't an example of Elon's genius in action - it's the opposite.
- terminalshort 1y ago
  > FSD hasn't worked out Says who? I've tried it and the capabilities are amazing. If you told me 10 years ago that I would be able to buy this in 2025 I wouldn't have believed you.
  - vachina 1y ago
    Yeah HN hivemind is wild. FSD is something you can buy and use RIGHT NOW. Autonomous driving in YOUR HANDS. Waymo still feels like a school project.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - metabagel 1y ago
      Tesla is level 2. Waymo is level 4.
  - rstuart4133 1y ago
    Says me, who owns a Y that has the FSD package. Random braking on a highway, indicator lights coming on for no apparent reason, windscreen wipers the start on a dry day, attempts move through a red light. None of those things are common, none are serious if your hands are on the wheel and you are giving it your full attention. It's a serviceable attempt at FSD Level 3, and auto park works well. But when I bought it, Elon was promoting hiring out your car as a FSD level 5 taxi when you weren't using it. If I regularly took my hands off the steering wheel and went for a snooze (if that was possible, which it isn't because they would be sued within an inch of their life), I'd be dead by now.