4 ms·

Did they break the law or not? That should be the focus of the discussion, rather than political posturing.

potato3732842 1y ago
I bet it'll come down to some sort of specific verbiage within the law that could be interpreted either way depending on who's lawyers you listen to. That's how these sort of BigCo regulatory compliance things almost always go.
schlauerfox 1y ago
The 'beauty' of fascistic uneven enforcement is the law doesn't matter anymore, everything is in bad faith and corrupt and they can punish their enemies and reward their sycophants at their whim.
bryanlarsen 1y ago
Of course they broke the law, it's pretty much impossible not to. It's a popular assertion that the average citizen unknowingly commits three felonies per day. And that's people who aren't interacting with the highly complex immigration system. I'm sure most forgot to dot an i or cross a t on their form or something.
- sickofparadox 1y ago
  The idea that the average person in America commits even one felony a day is so ridiculous it falls flat on its face after being spoken. How can you even say something like that without feeling embarrassed for believing it?
  - anonymousab 1y ago
    Accessing a single website with adblock installed is, in and of itself, potentially thousands of CFAA violations if enforced to the letter.
    - pharrington 1y ago
      Is this legal advise?
  - bryanlarsen 1y ago
    https://www.amazon.ca/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229 https://www.amazon.ca/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/...
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    Read the book. It's not about "lying on this form is a felony" and "posessing X much coke" type stuff. It's more about the ambiguity of the law and enforcement discretion than anything else. Think like Martha Steward "well you said X to us and despite believing it in good faith at the time we can prove that on day Y you were informed of Z therefore lied to us, therefore we can prosecute this as a felony if we so choose" type of fact patterns.
JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> Did they break the law or not? The point is everyone may have broken the law. Hyundai. These individuals. And the ICE agents acting outside the colour of law.
- mixmastamyk 1y ago
  Book 'em, Danno.
etblg 1y ago
Well it's American immigration law, so who knows, really depends person by person. Like I legitimately think there isn't an objective answer to that question, it's a patchwork of laws and forms and guidelines that overlap and are interpreted by different people. Two different border agents can have completely different opinions on whether your work trip can be counted under a B1/B2 visa or not, and then USCIS (not CBP, border agents, but the immigration services agency, a completely different department) could have a different idea.
- mixmastamyk 1y ago
  I've traveled to many countries on visas, and once for work. It's made very clear if you are allowed to work or not.
legitster 1y ago
> That should be the focus of the discussion, rather than political posturing. Counterpoint: the policy of how we treat foreign workers is a policy discussion. Even if it's legal to round them up and deny them due process, it (a) shouldn't be and (b) is going to overall hurt our economy and make America a less desirable place to do business.
- mixmastamyk 1y ago
  Has someone reputable reported/shown they've been denied due process? Here's a lawyer talking about his clients, which doesn't sound like they've been denied it: https://www.politifact.com/article/2025/sep/10/south-korea-work-visa-immigration-raid-hyundai-ICE/ https://www.politifact.com/article/2025/sep/10/south-korea-w... You (or I) may not like the law or policy, but that should be a separate discussion. We have rules; they should be followed. If they are bad they should be changed.
UncleMeat 1y ago
Treatment of people after they break the law is important to our system of liberty. "Well they broke the law so anything goes" is a nightmare.
- mixmastamyk 1y ago
  Were they brutalized in some fashion? Lining up and walking to a detention room or bus is standard. What you’d get at the airport, for example. Cuffs common when outside. I’ve experienced it myself. It’s neither here nor there as long as you get your day in court. (I understand some jarheads or managers might want to make a show of it, and probably should be reprimanded if so.) But the process is the process and an acceptable compromise. I get the feeling everyone passing judgment here has little info on the situation on the ground—news soundbites are not enough.
  - UncleMeat 1y ago
    There have already been articles written about their experience, not news soundbites.

I bet it'll come down to some sort of specific verbiage within the law that could be interpreted either way depending on who's lawyers you listen to. That's how these sort of BigCo regulatory compliance things almost always go.

schlauerfox 1y ago

The 'beauty' of fascistic uneven enforcement is the law doesn't matter anymore, everything is in bad faith and corrupt and they can punish their enemies and reward their sycophants at their whim.

bryanlarsen 1y ago

Of course they broke the law, it's pretty much impossible not to. It's a popular assertion that the average citizen unknowingly commits three felonies per day. And that's people who aren't interacting with the highly complex immigration system. I'm sure most forgot to dot an i or cross a t on their form or something.

sickofparadox 1y ago
The idea that the average person in America commits even one felony a day is so ridiculous it falls flat on its face after being spoken. How can you even say something like that without feeling embarrassed for believing it?
- anonymousab 1y ago
  Accessing a single website with adblock installed is, in and of itself, potentially thousands of CFAA violations if enforced to the letter.
  - pharrington 1y ago
    Is this legal advise?
- bryanlarsen 1y ago
  https://www.amazon.ca/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229 https://www.amazon.ca/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/...
- potato3732842 1y ago
  Read the book. It's not about "lying on this form is a felony" and "posessing X much coke" type stuff. It's more about the ambiguity of the law and enforcement discretion than anything else. Think like Martha Steward "well you said X to us and despite believing it in good faith at the time we can prove that on day Y you were informed of Z therefore lied to us, therefore we can prosecute this as a felony if we so choose" type of fact patterns.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

> Did they break the law or not? The point is everyone may have broken the law. Hyundai. These individuals. And the ICE agents acting outside the colour of law.

mixmastamyk 1y ago
Book 'em, Danno.

etblg 1y ago

Well it's American immigration law, so who knows, really depends person by person. Like I legitimately think there isn't an objective answer to that question, it's a patchwork of laws and forms and guidelines that overlap and are interpreted by different people. Two different border agents can have completely different opinions on whether your work trip can be counted under a B1/B2 visa or not, and then USCIS (not CBP, border agents, but the immigration services agency, a completely different department) could have a different idea.

mixmastamyk 1y ago
I've traveled to many countries on visas, and once for work. It's made very clear if you are allowed to work or not.

legitster 1y ago

> That should be the focus of the discussion, rather than political posturing. Counterpoint: the policy of how we treat foreign workers is a policy discussion. Even if it's legal to round them up and deny them due process, it (a) shouldn't be and (b) is going to overall hurt our economy and make America a less desirable place to do business.

mixmastamyk 1y ago
Has someone reputable reported/shown they've been denied due process? Here's a lawyer talking about his clients, which doesn't sound like they've been denied it: https://www.politifact.com/article/2025/sep/10/south-korea-work-visa-immigration-raid-hyundai-ICE/ https://www.politifact.com/article/2025/sep/10/south-korea-w... You (or I) may not like the law or policy, but that should be a separate discussion. We have rules; they should be followed. If they are bad they should be changed.

UncleMeat 1y ago

Treatment of people after they break the law is important to our system of liberty. "Well they broke the law so anything goes" is a nightmare.

mixmastamyk 1y ago
Were they brutalized in some fashion? Lining up and walking to a detention room or bus is standard. What you’d get at the airport, for example. Cuffs common when outside. I’ve experienced it myself. It’s neither here nor there as long as you get your day in court. (I understand some jarheads or managers might want to make a show of it, and probably should be reprimanded if so.) But the process is the process and an acceptable compromise. I get the feeling everyone passing judgment here has little info on the situation on the ground—news soundbites are not enough.
- UncleMeat 1y ago
  There have already been articles written about their experience, not news soundbites.