5 ms·

I wonder what the ultimate price of this service will be compared to alternatives.

by baggy_trough 1y ago

bix6 1y ago
Cheaper than uber rn. Long term once they own the market? Too much.
- gretch 1y ago
  They still have to compete with alternate modes of transportation such as buses, bikes, trains, e-scooter rentals, self-owned cars, Uber with human drivers. If it would be "too much", then there's no reason why taxis (incl uber/lyft) wouldn't be too much today.
  - bix6 1y ago
    I don’t really think they have to compete much. Direct competitors are uber and Lyft which they can undercut since they don’t pay drivers. The people who want to take buses and trains will continue to do so although Waymo might sway some with their ease and if pricing is reasonable. Bikes and e-scooters only get you so far. Last time I was in SF I didn’t see too many bikes but I saw a ton of e-scooters. Are you really taking an e-scooter further than a few blocks? And when it rains? Self owned cars make sense for longer trips out of the city but parking is a pain and driving is stressful so this is an easy win for Waymo. It’s cheaper now so they can take market share. And their cost will certainly be lower than Ubers so they can win the pricing battle. But long term monopoly gonna monopoly. Perfect pricing is a given with the wealth in SF and how many rides will be on a business CC.
- ElijahLynn 1y ago
  from what I heard, the intention is to make it much more affordable than it is now. I don't remember the source right now but I did think it was a blog post or something like that. I think if it's affordable then people will easily take that. instead of drinking and driving at night or other unsafe activities. if it's affordable then people can just take a waymo home and then back again to get their car when it's safe again.
  - bix6 1y ago
    Certainly they aim to make it affordable now in order to undercut Lyft and uber. Long term they will own the market and jack up prices as monopolies do.
ru552 1y ago
I've used Waymo countless times in SF. It's typically 15% cheaper than an Uber/Lyft and trip time/wait are generally the same. I much prefer the Waymo.
- WorldPeas 1y ago
  I've never encountered it being cheaper, what hours do you generally use it?
  - ru552 1y ago
    Generally between 11a and 7p. Going to lunch/dinner.
OkayPhysicist 1y ago
In my experience so far, Waymo costs about the same as an Uber when you take into account tipping, but takes longer (they're not yet doing freeways). With the addition of SFO to their zone, I can't imagine freeways are far behind, because getting from the city to SFO without using the freeways would be... a novelty.
- kelnos 1y ago
  That's not been my experience... 90% of the time when I check, Waymo is still a good 20-50% more expensive in SF, when comparing to a tip-included Uber or Lyft price.
MostlyStable 1y ago
It will remain higher for a while. From reporting I have seen, they are close to maxing out their vehicles, and many people prefer it to other options, so are willing to pay a premium. As long as that is true, it's going to be priced as a premium product. It won't be until fleets grow significantly in size and/or another driverless taxi service enters the market that we will maybe start to see prices driven down closer to marginal cost of a ride. -edit- multiple other comments apparently disagree with this. I'll defer to people who actually use them over the reporting. Odd that there is that disconnect though.
- paxys 1y ago
  It's also higher right now because it is a novely. Plenty of people are booking it just to say they rode in a Waymo and take pictures. When that wears off they will have to start competing strictily on price and wait/ride time.
  - bradleybuda 1y ago
    Lots of people, myself included, pay a premium to not have a human at the steering wheel; it's nice to have the car to yourself.
    - paxys 1y ago
      Yourself and three dozen recording devices and call centers full of people tracking the car and reviewing the footage, yes.
      - OkayPhysicist 1y ago
        To be fair, Waymo claims to not record or transmit audio without you either manually engaging such (by requesting support), or a very unambiguous announcement (presumably when the car gets into some sort of emergency situation). And lying about that claim would probably run afoul of California's 2 party consent law. So still a step up in privacy versus having someone in the car listening in on your conversation. That said, even if they were listening to you, there's a lot of things that are completely inconsequential from a perspective of an anonymous call center employee far away listening in on, that I probably wouldn't want to talk about in front of a taxi driver.
BurningFrog 1y ago
Self driving taxis are fundamentally much cheaper to provide. - No driver to pay. - Smaller simpler car. - Can drive 24h a day. - Needs much less parking space. But fully realizing these benefits is probably a decade away.

I wonder what the ultimate price of this service will be compared to alternatives.

bix6 1y ago

Cheaper than uber rn. Long term once they own the market? Too much.

gretch 1y ago
They still have to compete with alternate modes of transportation such as buses, bikes, trains, e-scooter rentals, self-owned cars, Uber with human drivers. If it would be "too much", then there's no reason why taxis (incl uber/lyft) wouldn't be too much today.
- bix6 1y ago
  I don’t really think they have to compete much. Direct competitors are uber and Lyft which they can undercut since they don’t pay drivers. The people who want to take buses and trains will continue to do so although Waymo might sway some with their ease and if pricing is reasonable. Bikes and e-scooters only get you so far. Last time I was in SF I didn’t see too many bikes but I saw a ton of e-scooters. Are you really taking an e-scooter further than a few blocks? And when it rains? Self owned cars make sense for longer trips out of the city but parking is a pain and driving is stressful so this is an easy win for Waymo. It’s cheaper now so they can take market share. And their cost will certainly be lower than Ubers so they can win the pricing battle. But long term monopoly gonna monopoly. Perfect pricing is a given with the wealth in SF and how many rides will be on a business CC.
ElijahLynn 1y ago
from what I heard, the intention is to make it much more affordable than it is now. I don't remember the source right now but I did think it was a blog post or something like that. I think if it's affordable then people will easily take that. instead of drinking and driving at night or other unsafe activities. if it's affordable then people can just take a waymo home and then back again to get their car when it's safe again.
- bix6 1y ago
  Certainly they aim to make it affordable now in order to undercut Lyft and uber. Long term they will own the market and jack up prices as monopolies do.

ru552 1y ago

I've used Waymo countless times in SF. It's typically 15% cheaper than an Uber/Lyft and trip time/wait are generally the same. I much prefer the Waymo.

WorldPeas 1y ago
I've never encountered it being cheaper, what hours do you generally use it?
- ru552 1y ago
  Generally between 11a and 7p. Going to lunch/dinner.

OkayPhysicist 1y ago

In my experience so far, Waymo costs about the same as an Uber when you take into account tipping, but takes longer (they're not yet doing freeways). With the addition of SFO to their zone, I can't imagine freeways are far behind, because getting from the city to SFO without using the freeways would be... a novelty.

kelnos 1y ago
That's not been my experience... 90% of the time when I check, Waymo is still a good 20-50% more expensive in SF, when comparing to a tip-included Uber or Lyft price.

MostlyStable 1y ago

It will remain higher for a while. From reporting I have seen, they are close to maxing out their vehicles, and many people prefer it to other options, so are willing to pay a premium. As long as that is true, it's going to be priced as a premium product. It won't be until fleets grow significantly in size and/or another driverless taxi service enters the market that we will maybe start to see prices driven down closer to marginal cost of a ride. -edit- multiple other comments apparently disagree with this. I'll defer to people who actually use them over the reporting. Odd that there is that disconnect though.

paxys 1y ago
It's also higher right now because it is a novely. Plenty of people are booking it just to say they rode in a Waymo and take pictures. When that wears off they will have to start competing strictily on price and wait/ride time.
- bradleybuda 1y ago
  Lots of people, myself included, pay a premium to not have a human at the steering wheel; it's nice to have the car to yourself.
  - paxys 1y ago
    Yourself and three dozen recording devices and call centers full of people tracking the car and reviewing the footage, yes.
    - OkayPhysicist 1y ago
      To be fair, Waymo claims to not record or transmit audio without you either manually engaging such (by requesting support), or a very unambiguous announcement (presumably when the car gets into some sort of emergency situation). And lying about that claim would probably run afoul of California's 2 party consent law. So still a step up in privacy versus having someone in the car listening in on your conversation. That said, even if they were listening to you, there's a lot of things that are completely inconsequential from a perspective of an anonymous call center employee far away listening in on, that I probably wouldn't want to talk about in front of a taxi driver.

BurningFrog 1y ago

Self driving taxis are fundamentally much cheaper to provide. - No driver to pay. - Smaller simpler car. - Can drive 24h a day. - Needs much less parking space. But fully realizing these benefits is probably a decade away.