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How can they push back against unions? They are mobs. They have been mobs since day one. In fact, in the early days union leadership was down-right criminal

How can they push back against unions? They are mobs. They have been mobs since day one. In fact, in the early days union leadership was down-right criminal (not saying that's the case today). Look at what is going on in Chicago right now with the teachers union. They don't give a shit about our kids. They want more and more and more until the goose is dead. They are not willing to toss out bad teachers and work under the same rules that proper the free market. As an engineer I have to be good at my job. If I suck at it I either get fired, or, as a business owner, loose my ass. This simple reality does not exist in the unionized ecosystem. You can completely suck at your job and have a job for life. Not only that, you can retire and continue to earn a pension for life. Does that represent the values of our country? Is that what we think this nation is about? The land of the most incompetent and lazy? I think not. Take unions out of the equation and see how the incompetent go away or, all of a sudden, decide to actually work 'cause they'd have something to loose. Unions do nothing good for our country today. Don't buy union products if you can help it.

ktizo 14y ago
Look at what is going on in Chicago right now with the teachers union. They don't give a shit about our kids. Here are some of the demands of the Chicago teachers union: Smaller class sizes. More playgrounds, recess time and physical education classes. More art, dance, theater, music and foreign language instruction. More funding for libraries. Healthier school lunches. An end to the “apartheid-like” Chicago Public School system today and to “discipline policies with a disproportionate harm on students of color.” Guarantee pre-K and full-day kindergarten for all students. Higher teacher salaries and more teacher “autonomy.” Better bilingual and special needs programs. Higher-quality school facilities. From here - http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/09/13/the-chicago-teachers-union-has-a-plan-to-fix-the-citys-schools-but-its-pricey/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/09/13... I think that you claiming that the Chicago teaching union don't give a shit about the kids is basically a deliberate slur to try and further your own political stance against unionisation in general.
- Bud 14y ago
  Hear, hear. It's a completely fact-free, anti-union rant. The plural of anecdote is not data. And the singular of anecdote is definitely not data. The GP does not, of course, have any idea whatever about whether Chicago teachers care about kids.
- gsibble 14y ago
  That's all a total smokescreen for the pay and benefits increases they want which you've conveniently left out.
  - ktizo 14y ago
    pay and benefits increases they want which you've conveniently left out. Read all of it, is only ten items. Increased salaries was eighth on that list.
  - dalke 14y ago
    Are you referring to the "16 percent raise over the next four years. That figure includes both cost-of-living salary bumps and the so-called step increases for working another year in the district." Or is there some other pay and benefits increase that I don't know about which is bigger than this? (BTW, it seems that COLA alone is about 5% over 4 years.) Also, shouldn't teachers be highly paid? How much do you think they should make? Should they not be making "salaries comparable to others with their education and experience"? That quote comes from the list of 10 points from "The Schools Chicago’s Students Deserve" at http://www.ctunet.com/quest-center/research/the-schools-chicagos-students-deserve http://www.ctunet.com/quest-center/research/the-schools-chic... Do you honestly think that if the teachers don't get a pay raise but do get the other 9 points from that list of 10 then they will continue to strike?
    - don_draper 14y ago
      >>How much do you think they should make? What the market is willing to pay them. I'd rather teach history but I get paid more as a programmer. Let the free market decide their pay.

ktizo 14y ago

Look at what is going on in Chicago right now with the teachers union. They don't give a shit about our kids. Here are some of the demands of the Chicago teachers union: Smaller class sizes. More playgrounds, recess time and physical education classes. More art, dance, theater, music and foreign language instruction. More funding for libraries. Healthier school lunches. An end to the “apartheid-like” Chicago Public School system today and to “discipline policies with a disproportionate harm on students of color.” Guarantee pre-K and full-day kindergarten for all students. Higher teacher salaries and more teacher “autonomy.” Better bilingual and special needs programs. Higher-quality school facilities. From here - http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/09/13/the-chicago-teachers-union-has-a-plan-to-fix-the-citys-schools-but-its-pricey/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/09/13... I think that you claiming that the Chicago teaching union don't give a shit about the kids is basically a deliberate slur to try and further your own political stance against unionisation in general.

Bud 14y ago
Hear, hear. It's a completely fact-free, anti-union rant. The plural of anecdote is not data. And the singular of anecdote is definitely not data. The GP does not, of course, have any idea whatever about whether Chicago teachers care about kids.
gsibble 14y ago
That's all a total smokescreen for the pay and benefits increases they want which you've conveniently left out.
- ktizo 14y ago
  pay and benefits increases they want which you've conveniently left out. Read all of it, is only ten items. Increased salaries was eighth on that list.
- dalke 14y ago
  Are you referring to the "16 percent raise over the next four years. That figure includes both cost-of-living salary bumps and the so-called step increases for working another year in the district." Or is there some other pay and benefits increase that I don't know about which is bigger than this? (BTW, it seems that COLA alone is about 5% over 4 years.) Also, shouldn't teachers be highly paid? How much do you think they should make? Should they not be making "salaries comparable to others with their education and experience"? That quote comes from the list of 10 points from "The Schools Chicago’s Students Deserve" at http://www.ctunet.com/quest-center/research/the-schools-chicagos-students-deserve http://www.ctunet.com/quest-center/research/the-schools-chic... Do you honestly think that if the teachers don't get a pay raise but do get the other 9 points from that list of 10 then they will continue to strike?
  - don_draper 14y ago
    >>How much do you think they should make? What the market is willing to pay them. I'd rather teach history but I get paid more as a programmer. Let the free market decide their pay.