4 ms·

Retractable flush door handles without an obvious, usable, and effective manual override option are one of the most stupid and user hostile "innovations" ever.

by toss1 1y ago

Retractable flush door handles without an obvious, usable, and effective manual override option are one of the most stupid and user hostile "innovations" ever. Designers effectively said: "Lets save 0.03 on our Coefficient of Drag, add unnecessary weight of extra motors and control complexity, and make sure whenever the 12V supply is cut or a bit of ice is in the mechanism, everyone inside is trapped —— it'll look cool". China is already looking at banning them [0] because of the difficulty they present to emergency crews trying to rescue passengers. And while I used to admire Musk and defend him here, this now seems like just another "innovation" by a sociopath who cares only about how cool it might make him look, and nevermind the people burned to death trapped inside his cars. At least the Ford Pinto exploding gas tank debacle was for profit [1], this is just one man's ego. [0] https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a66052483/china-possible-ban-fully-retractable-door-handles-for-cars/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a66052483/china-possible-b... [1] https://www.autosafety.org/ford-pinto-fuel-tank/ https://www.autosafety.org/ford-pinto-fuel-tank/

throwway120385 1y ago
It wasn't even about those things. It was about having cool electronic door handles like a spaceship. If it was about those things that would imply a level of intentionality in the design that goes beyond whatever happened here.
cbeach 1y ago
> this is just one man's ego. Since you're attributing the design of all Tesla features to Musk, would you compliment him on the Tesla Model 3 being reported as the "safest new car on the market," acheiving an overall EuroNCAP score of 359/400? https://www.whatcar.com/news/the-safest-cars-on-sale-today/n19724 https://www.whatcar.com/news/the-safest-cars-on-sale-today/n... ... or would that go against the narrative? FWIW, and for balance - I think the retracting handle design on the Model S is dangerous. I own the car and it's a nagging concern in my mind.
- toss1 1y ago
  >>would you compliment him on the Tesla Model 3 yes, as I mentioned, I have posted similar strong compliments/defenses of Musk in the past, including on here. I'd also point out that while one person can drive design of the most salient features (such as a noticeably different door-handle), the entire design of a modern automobile and its systems are obviously not from only one person. I also attribute the overall requirement for high crash-test results to Musk, but this sort of anti-safety feature shows his drive is not for safety, but notoriety. If I were in your position, I'd also actively practice with family using the alternate handles from inside so it is ingrained in your mind sufficiently to recall in an emergency; I hope no one ever needs it, but... It's really too bad what he's changed into or shown himself to be; I used to really want to own a Tesla, now I would take or keep a free one.
  - cbeach 1y ago
    Ah, so if a Tesla feature is bad it must have been designed by Musk. And if Tesla does something good it was "obviously not from only one person" > I have posted similar strong compliments/defenses of Musk in the past, including on here. As have many people, who curiously seemed to change their treatment of Musk around the time of the 2024 election. Funny, that.
    - toss1 1y ago
      No, I did NOT say the safety features were not due to Musk, I stated clearly I believe he was responsible for that safety initiative, just as I thought him responsible for the door handles, but I doubt he had much input in the detailed design of either, and OBVIOUSLY the design of a whole modern automotive crash safety system is more than the work of one person. More importantly, the juxtaposition of the two features makes clear his motivation is primarily a collection of features that Musk thinks will make Musk seem cool, which is a very different thing than trying to make the safest cars in all respects to protect his customers. As for when and why my opinion of Musk changed, again it changed years before 2024, and was cemented when he argued publicly with one of his software engineers and revealed a level of cluelessness showing his previous reputation as some kind of tech genius was a curated sham. You seem to suggest it is wrong of people to reconsider their opinion of Musk around 2024 when he claims to be a "Free Speech Absolutist" yet used his ownership of the largest social media platform and his massive fortune to actively promote proto-fascists in the US and around the world to convert democracies into racist authoritarian states. It is not wrong to shun people who work to introduce intolerance into a society — in fact, the only thing that an open tolerant society can not tolerate if it wants to survive is intolerance itself [0]. While I was not one of them, I am perfectly happy to see people changing their opinion of Musk due to his actions around 2024. If you have not, you are not looking closely enough; please do so. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
- piva00 1y ago
  6 minutes before this comment you proclaimed yourself a Tesla fanboy, admitted the door handles are unsafe, and now you are trying to deflect the criticism to point out the EuroNCAP results? Would the EuroNCAP stat help you in any way if your kids get trapped on the back of your car while you are unconscious and burn to death because they don't know how to operate the handle? That's the issue, it doesn't matter the EuroNCAP if such a stupid decision has and will kill people, statistically it's very improbable it will affect you but it will affect someone just like you. Please, let go of the cult...
thegreatpeter 1y ago
I'm glad there's some rational, reasonable people left on Hacker News
mosdl 1y ago
I hope everyone bans them, too many are copying them and its a major turnoff.

by toss1 1y ago

throwway120385 1y ago

It wasn't even about those things. It was about having cool electronic door handles like a spaceship. If it was about those things that would imply a level of intentionality in the design that goes beyond whatever happened here.

cbeach 1y ago

> this is just one man's ego. Since you're attributing the design of all Tesla features to Musk, would you compliment him on the Tesla Model 3 being reported as the "safest new car on the market," acheiving an overall EuroNCAP score of 359/400? https://www.whatcar.com/news/the-safest-cars-on-sale-today/n19724 https://www.whatcar.com/news/the-safest-cars-on-sale-today/n... ... or would that go against the narrative? FWIW, and for balance - I think the retracting handle design on the Model S is dangerous. I own the car and it's a nagging concern in my mind.

toss1 1y ago
>>would you compliment him on the Tesla Model 3 yes, as I mentioned, I have posted similar strong compliments/defenses of Musk in the past, including on here. I'd also point out that while one person can drive design of the most salient features (such as a noticeably different door-handle), the entire design of a modern automobile and its systems are obviously not from only one person. I also attribute the overall requirement for high crash-test results to Musk, but this sort of anti-safety feature shows his drive is not for safety, but notoriety. If I were in your position, I'd also actively practice with family using the alternate handles from inside so it is ingrained in your mind sufficiently to recall in an emergency; I hope no one ever needs it, but... It's really too bad what he's changed into or shown himself to be; I used to really want to own a Tesla, now I would take or keep a free one.
- cbeach 1y ago
  Ah, so if a Tesla feature is bad it must have been designed by Musk. And if Tesla does something good it was "obviously not from only one person" > I have posted similar strong compliments/defenses of Musk in the past, including on here. As have many people, who curiously seemed to change their treatment of Musk around the time of the 2024 election. Funny, that.
  - toss1 1y ago
    No, I did NOT say the safety features were not due to Musk, I stated clearly I believe he was responsible for that safety initiative, just as I thought him responsible for the door handles, but I doubt he had much input in the detailed design of either, and OBVIOUSLY the design of a whole modern automotive crash safety system is more than the work of one person. More importantly, the juxtaposition of the two features makes clear his motivation is primarily a collection of features that Musk thinks will make Musk seem cool, which is a very different thing than trying to make the safest cars in all respects to protect his customers. As for when and why my opinion of Musk changed, again it changed years before 2024, and was cemented when he argued publicly with one of his software engineers and revealed a level of cluelessness showing his previous reputation as some kind of tech genius was a curated sham. You seem to suggest it is wrong of people to reconsider their opinion of Musk around 2024 when he claims to be a "Free Speech Absolutist" yet used his ownership of the largest social media platform and his massive fortune to actively promote proto-fascists in the US and around the world to convert democracies into racist authoritarian states. It is not wrong to shun people who work to introduce intolerance into a society — in fact, the only thing that an open tolerant society can not tolerate if it wants to survive is intolerance itself [0]. While I was not one of them, I am perfectly happy to see people changing their opinion of Musk due to his actions around 2024. If you have not, you are not looking closely enough; please do so. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
piva00 1y ago
6 minutes before this comment you proclaimed yourself a Tesla fanboy, admitted the door handles are unsafe, and now you are trying to deflect the criticism to point out the EuroNCAP results? Would the EuroNCAP stat help you in any way if your kids get trapped on the back of your car while you are unconscious and burn to death because they don't know how to operate the handle? That's the issue, it doesn't matter the EuroNCAP if such a stupid decision has and will kill people, statistically it's very improbable it will affect you but it will affect someone just like you. Please, let go of the cult...

thegreatpeter 1y ago

I'm glad there's some rational, reasonable people left on Hacker News

mosdl 1y ago

I hope everyone bans them, too many are copying them and its a major turnoff.