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You cite change orders in your defense: >For example: change orders. A project gets designed and approved, the contractor gets his contract and starts digging.
by deveac 14y ago
You cite change orders in your defense:
>For example: change orders. A project gets designed and approved, the contractor gets his contract and starts digging. Two weeks into excavation, the project engineer tells the contractor "oh, that tunnel needs to be built 20 feet deeper and moved 15 feet to the south."
But I think it's worth pointing out that change orders are probably THE primary mechanism of gouging used by contractors in 'lowest-bid-wins' scenarios, as you should know.
What often happens is that contractors lowball, knowing that they will make up the margin on the change orders which are not competitively bid. A well designed RFP can mitigate this somewhat by requiring menu pricing on add/deducts for the most common in-field changes, but it can't account for everything, and bidding contractors look for open ended RFPs and exploit them.
There may only be a few 'shady contractors' out there as you say, but a)low-bid systems bring them to the top of the short list, and b)I'd wager almost every 'reputable' contractor's change order margins are higher than for the exact same work that was competed in a public RFP.
Just my thoughts on that. Raised an eyebrow since change orders are the primary mechanism for inflating post-award margins.
Edit:
Also want to point out that my use of the word 'gouging' is kind of a loaded term:
>But I think it's worth pointing out that change orders are probably THE primary mechanism of gouging used by contractors in 'lowest-bid-wins' scenarios
Are these contractors gouging? They are not doing anything illegal, but it can fall into questionably ethical territory. But from many contractor's point of view, they are stuck bidding on a system that is designed somewhat unethically.
From a systems standpoint, when the only factor in winning a bid is lowest cost on the delivery of a product that will unquestionably have change orders, you get a scenario where the following is actually happening.
1)Firms provide goods and service for margin 'a+b' which is averaged over the life of the project
2)Only margin 'a' is competed
3)Margin 'b' is projected but undefined and can be adjusted by the Firm after the award based on margin 'a'
Is it ethical to even ask a Firm to submit a bid based on margin 'a' set equal to margin 'b' knowing that the system is designed to produce competing bids distributing the total product margin unevenly between the two variables, weighting 'b' much more heavily and minimizing 'a' in order to win the bid and work at all?
I don't think so, and what happens is you get a system that is almost explicitly designed to inject increased total project costs and increased variability.
I think that under this system, it's an incredibly gray area on the how ethical increased post-award margins on change orders are. Just the fact that an increase occurs does not strike me as unethical, but there is absolutely zero doubt that some of the margin increases are absolutely unethical and drive the total product margin up well past what it would have been if bid under a possibly more efficient system (throw out high and low bids for example).
If gouging is going to happen, it's going to happen on a change order, but it's not so black and white.
- Anechoic 14y agoRaised an eyebrow since change orders are the primary mechanism for inflating post-award margins. This comes down to how well the contract is written. The Big Dig was getting screwed pretty early on by contractors doing exactly what you described, but learned from the experience and started tightening up those contract terms. As a result, some contractors continued to try to play that game, and when they couldn't make up for lowball bids using change orders, they went out of business. Other contractors learned their lesson and started pricing things more realistically.
- deveac 14y ago>and when they couldn't make up for lowball bids using change orders, they went out of business. Yeah. Unfortunately, this also adds to the cost of projects massively. One of the reasons I like the practice of throwing out the lowest and the highest bids. That method doesn't work in every scenario, but when you have enough firms competing it can really protect the owner, as well as the winning contractor. I used to drive in the Boston area in 95-98 and dealt with the Big Dig daily for years. Shudder.
- btilly 14y agoAnd there you fall into one of the traps. Contracts that are long because they explicitly protect against every way that the agency has been screwed in the past. It would be much more effective to have the response to being screwed be, "We have the option of saying you are not allowed to submit bids on public projects in the future." Then you don't have to legislate every last detail of when that happens. This is what happens in the private sector. I do not have to do business with you if I don't want to, and I don't want to do business with you if you've screwed me in the past. If you're not planning on screwing me, this is not a problem. If you are, it is only a problem for me..once. And a problem for you going forward.
- Anechoic 14y agoIt would be much more effective to have the response to being screwed be, "We have the option of saying you are not allowed to submit bids on public projects in the future." Then you don't have to legislate every last detail of when that happens. This happens in the public sector as well. Case in point: Parsons-Brinckerhoff is persona non grata when it comes to bidding on MA projects (MA tried to legislate the ban and weren't able to, but I know firsthand that PB has been thrown off several teams bidding for MA projects when the team was told they would have no chance of winning the project with PB on board).