4 ms·

Raymond Chen clears things up again: > Some people suggest that one thing Microsoft Research could do with that time machine they’re working on is to go back i

Raymond Chen clears things up again: > Some people suggest that one thing Microsoft Research could do with that time machine they’re working on is to go back in time and change the name of the Program Files directory to simply Programs. No, it really should be Program Files. Program Files are not the same as Programs. Programs are things like Calc, Notepad, Excel, Photoshop. They are things you run. Program Files are things like ACRORD32.DLL and TWCUTCHR.DLL. They are files that make programs run. If the directory were named Programs, then people who wanted to run a program would start digging into that directory and seeing a page full of weird DLL names and wonder “What the heck kind of programs are these?” And eventually they might figure out that if they want to run PowerPoint, they need to double-click on the icon named POWERPNT. “Computers are so hard to use.” WLCM2DOS > If you want to find your programs, go to the Start menu. The Program Files directory is like the pantry of a restaurant. You aren’t expected to go in there and nibble on things that look interesting. You’re expected to order things from the menu. https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20131119-00/?p=2623 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20131119-00/?p=26... See also: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/technet-magazine/cc160958(v=msdn.10)?redirectedfrom=MSDN https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/technet-...

dingaling 1y ago
The types of people digging in PROGRA~1 were pretty likely to understand the difference between executables and DLLs.
vlovich123 1y ago
I'd buy this except we have existence proof of how Apple solved this by instead making .app folders act special in the UI and having an /Applications folder you drag applications into. A much more elegant solution and I think the criticism stands correct; Microsoft Research just didn't realize how to solve the problem and everything else is justification after-the-fact.
- mixmastamyk 1y ago
  I remember when you’d look in that folder in old versions of Windows, explorer would actually tell you, “Hey, don’t look in here!” This was because they hadn’t yet implemented security. (Was probably Win98 or so.)
- Ntrails 1y ago
  I'm not a mac guy - but I was playing some sts and for some reason my _data_ was embedded inside an Application which is kind of a package of files and I have to "unzip it" from a context menu to see the save games (but everything still functions the same). That is, imo, awful. I'm not sold they've got everything right
  - vlovich123 1y ago
    That is very weird and suggests the App developer made a weird choice and ignore the HIG. Not a problem with the approach IMHO.
xeyownt 1y ago
Except that "Program Files" contains also folders, so it should be "Program Files And Folders", with all the nasty caps and spaces. What's the point of pushing the details to such level if you destroy usability? In the meantime unix and alike use /bin, /lib, ... and everybody is happy.
- Etherlord87 1y ago
  But Unix isn't a good system for a person that isn't a computer geek
  - giobox 1y ago
    Macs seem to sell just fine to people that aren't "computer geeks". > https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/certificates/1223p.pdf https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/certificates/1223p.pdf
JTbane 1y ago
this makes Unix-style directories seem downright logical: - programs go in /bin - configurations go in /etc - libraries go in /lib - your personal user files go in /home/username
- resize2996 1y ago
  except...
- GuB-42 1y ago
  And then, there is /usr It was supposed to be the user directory, but because someone didn't have enough space on /, it was somehow decided to put some stuff in there, so you have /usr/bin, /usr/lib, etc... But the user directories moved to /home, making /usr hold everything but user directories. Decades later, we still don't know what goes in /usr and what goes in /. In theory, what you need to boot the system should go to /, the rest goes to /usr, but in practice, there is no real rule, just don't break the scripts. Nowadays, distros tend to link one to the other in hope of making some sense without breaking too much stuff. All that because someone was lacking disk space at some point in history.
  - woleium 1y ago
    i thought /usr was a mounted shared volume for files that were static for everyone in the lab/office and the local machine machines files went in /
    - opem 1y ago
      It should have been /shr for shared resources rather than unix shared resources (usr) to prevent people from confusing it with something related to user
  - raffraffraff 1y ago
    But do you put extra programs in /usr/bin, /usr/local/bin, /opt/, ~/bin. ~/.local/bin or somewhere else entirely. Or if you're using homebrew, who the hell even knows how to make those the first choice in your PATH.

dingaling 1y ago

The types of people digging in PROGRA~1 were pretty likely to understand the difference between executables and DLLs.

vlovich123 1y ago

I'd buy this except we have existence proof of how Apple solved this by instead making .app folders act special in the UI and having an /Applications folder you drag applications into. A much more elegant solution and I think the criticism stands correct; Microsoft Research just didn't realize how to solve the problem and everything else is justification after-the-fact.

mixmastamyk 1y ago
I remember when you’d look in that folder in old versions of Windows, explorer would actually tell you, “Hey, don’t look in here!” This was because they hadn’t yet implemented security. (Was probably Win98 or so.)
Ntrails 1y ago
I'm not a mac guy - but I was playing some sts and for some reason my _data_ was embedded inside an Application which is kind of a package of files and I have to "unzip it" from a context menu to see the save games (but everything still functions the same). That is, imo, awful. I'm not sold they've got everything right
- vlovich123 1y ago
  That is very weird and suggests the App developer made a weird choice and ignore the HIG. Not a problem with the approach IMHO.

xeyownt 1y ago

Except that "Program Files" contains also folders, so it should be "Program Files And Folders", with all the nasty caps and spaces. What's the point of pushing the details to such level if you destroy usability? In the meantime unix and alike use /bin, /lib, ... and everybody is happy.

Etherlord87 1y ago
But Unix isn't a good system for a person that isn't a computer geek
- giobox 1y ago
  Macs seem to sell just fine to people that aren't "computer geeks". > https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/certificates/1223p.pdf https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/certificates/1223p.pdf

JTbane 1y ago

this makes Unix-style directories seem downright logical: - programs go in /bin - configurations go in /etc - libraries go in /lib - your personal user files go in /home/username

resize2996 1y ago
except...
GuB-42 1y ago
And then, there is /usr It was supposed to be the user directory, but because someone didn't have enough space on /, it was somehow decided to put some stuff in there, so you have /usr/bin, /usr/lib, etc... But the user directories moved to /home, making /usr hold everything but user directories. Decades later, we still don't know what goes in /usr and what goes in /. In theory, what you need to boot the system should go to /, the rest goes to /usr, but in practice, there is no real rule, just don't break the scripts. Nowadays, distros tend to link one to the other in hope of making some sense without breaking too much stuff. All that because someone was lacking disk space at some point in history.
- woleium 1y ago
  i thought /usr was a mounted shared volume for files that were static for everyone in the lab/office and the local machine machines files went in /
  - opem 1y ago
    It should have been /shr for shared resources rather than unix shared resources (usr) to prevent people from confusing it with something related to user
- raffraffraff 1y ago
  But do you put extra programs in /usr/bin, /usr/local/bin, /opt/, ~/bin. ~/.local/bin or somewhere else entirely. Or if you're using homebrew, who the hell even knows how to make those the first choice in your PATH.