3 ms·

A better comparison would be how much fuel it needs to run for 20 years. But it's still a relevant question. And if we're ever going to stop releasing large amo

by marvin 14y ago

A better comparison would be how much fuel it needs to run for 20 years. But it's still a relevant question. And if we're ever going to stop releasing large amounts of CO2 to the atmosphere, solar is one of the essential ways to get there. Solar is getting really cheap these days. It's very exciting.

jrabone 14y ago
No.2 diesel oil consumption for a single 3.5MW genset is ~ 200 g/kW.h. Spot price for no.2 diesel oil is ~ $3 / US gallon ($3.50 for low sulphur). Density is ~ 920 kg/m^3, US gallon is 0.00378541 m^3, so running at rated capacity a single genset is: 700 kg / h 0.76 m^3 / h 201 US gallons / h (isn't that convenient?) $703 / h running on the good stuff $17k / day $123M for 20 years at today's spot price For a single genset. Call it $750M for a 20MW plant running continuously for 20 years. Feel free to factor in a prediction for rising cost of fuel oil. I pay over $9 per US gallon for premium diesel car fuel in the UK...
fafner 14y ago
I don't think that photovoltaic is an essential step on a grid perspective. The production of PV cells costs a lot of energy, produces a lot of CO2 and requires a lot of nasty chemicals (zB HF). The prices are only cheap because of massive government subsidies and in the EU because of silly laws, that force grid operators to accept every bit of solar energy despite what the plan says. The best way would probably to invest in thorium and other modern nuclear technologies. But that's not desired. Waterpower is limited by nature. Currently the real alternative seems to be wind and depending on where you are solarthermal and geothermal. Especially massive offshore wind/wave plants. But all of this requires a restructuring of the power grid and massive pump-storage plants. And I don't think c2 was considering diesel as a future alternative but just trying to give an idea about the size requirements.
- marvin 14y ago
  I agree that nuclear (thorium) is an option that should be reserached and developed, as should other nuclear options. But there is no silver bullet in energy. And solar cells are not cheap only because of government subsidies. This has been true for a long time, but the newest generation of solar cells are clearly profitable even without subsidies. In fact, the next generation of Chinese panels for US customers will only be _expensive_ because of protectionist import tariffs. See http://solartribune.com/2012-05-30-u-s-import-tariffs-could-reduce-solar-imports-by-45/ http://solartribune.com/2012-05-30-u-s-import-tariffs-could-....

by marvin 14y ago

jrabone 14y ago

No.2 diesel oil consumption for a single 3.5MW genset is ~ 200 g/kW.h. Spot price for no.2 diesel oil is ~ $3 / US gallon ($3.50 for low sulphur). Density is ~ 920 kg/m^3, US gallon is 0.00378541 m^3, so running at rated capacity a single genset is: 700 kg / h 0.76 m^3 / h 201 US gallons / h (isn't that convenient?) $703 / h running on the good stuff $17k / day $123M for 20 years at today's spot price For a single genset. Call it $750M for a 20MW plant running continuously for 20 years. Feel free to factor in a prediction for rising cost of fuel oil. I pay over $9 per US gallon for premium diesel car fuel in the UK...

fafner 14y ago

I don't think that photovoltaic is an essential step on a grid perspective. The production of PV cells costs a lot of energy, produces a lot of CO2 and requires a lot of nasty chemicals (zB HF). The prices are only cheap because of massive government subsidies and in the EU because of silly laws, that force grid operators to accept every bit of solar energy despite what the plan says. The best way would probably to invest in thorium and other modern nuclear technologies. But that's not desired. Waterpower is limited by nature. Currently the real alternative seems to be wind and depending on where you are solarthermal and geothermal. Especially massive offshore wind/wave plants. But all of this requires a restructuring of the power grid and massive pump-storage plants. And I don't think c2 was considering diesel as a future alternative but just trying to give an idea about the size requirements.

marvin 14y ago
I agree that nuclear (thorium) is an option that should be reserached and developed, as should other nuclear options. But there is no silver bullet in energy. And solar cells are not cheap only because of government subsidies. This has been true for a long time, but the newest generation of solar cells are clearly profitable even without subsidies. In fact, the next generation of Chinese panels for US customers will only be _expensive_ because of protectionist import tariffs. See http://solartribune.com/2012-05-30-u-s-import-tariffs-could-reduce-solar-imports-by-45/ http://solartribune.com/2012-05-30-u-s-import-tariffs-could-....