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Regarding the iPhone 17 Pro: > People who have no use for all these pro video recording features shouldn’t waste their money on it. Unless they want a big chun

Regarding the iPhone 17 Pro: > People who have no use for all these pro video recording features shouldn’t waste their money on it. Unless they want a big chunky iPhone with the best camera array and/or have money to burn. I feel like people who “want the best camera array and have money to burn” probably describes a significant percentage of HN readers. I’m honestly pretty excited that they’ve finally put the larger, high res sensor in all three iPhone cameras - which should result in pretty decent image quality across the entire 13 - 200 mm equivalent range. It’s a nice upgrade from my current iPhone which uses smaller 12 MP sensors for the ultra-wide and telephoto cameras - resulting in images that are noticeably soft and noisy. I personally don’t consider the iPhone 17 Pro to be too big or chunky. I’m generally happy to sacrifice an extra millimeter of thickness for better battery life, and enjoy the usability of larger screen sizes. I know that a lot of people really want smaller phones, though, and I think it’s unfortunate that Apple cancelled the mini (and the smaller SE design). I guess it just wasn’t selling that well. And finally, I’m at a point in my life where spending $1100 on a new iPhone every few years isn’t going to break the bank. And I also am able to give my current iPhone to family members, who should be able to enjoy it for many more years to come.

hedora 1y ago
The air is too big and clunky from me. Sent from my iPhone 13 mini, which is also Too Damn Big. I’m got above average size human hands, which are too small even for the mini.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- DanHulton 1y ago
  I, too, am still rocking the 13 mini, which they made good enough that nothing they've made since has made me wish to upgrade, though the fact that every phone since is Too Damn Big has made me happy I haven't yet. We've got about three years left before these things are unsupported. Three years of hope for them to release _something_ a little smaller than "uncomfortably large."
  - smallstepforman 1y ago
    Also on 13 mini. But my next phone needs a better camera, and the cellular radio reception needs to be better (my 13 mini loses network connection in weak areas faster than my wifes 15 or sons 16 pro does - they stay online, I’m out). I love smaller phones though (hence the 13 mini).
    - simondotau 1y ago
      The problem is there aren't enough people buying mini phones to make it worthwhile to Apple. But that's only if they keep a mini around permanently. However if Apple released a new iPhone mini model every fourth year, I'd wager these would be like a McRib-style smash hit sales event, compressing the comparatively small mini-enthusiast audience into a time-limited buying window. It would also trigger FOMO at a time when many people are increasingly willing to delay upgrades for 5+ years.
      - snickell 1y ago
        This is a brilliant idea, I really hope somebody on the iPhone 18 design team reads it. I think there’s a huge pent up demand for a mini model, many of us would pay more for it than the large versions.
      - dwayne_dibley 1y ago
        This is what I'm banking on. I really want a new mini next year.
        codyb 1y ago
        If anyone from Apple is reading this and wants more support for another mini model, here I am. Rocking a 13 mini for personal use and a 12 mini for work, no plans to upgrade until another mini comes out or these die in which case I will consider all options (although, will happily upgrade to another Mini should one come out).
- snickell 1y ago
  On an iPhone 12 mini, wishing I hadn’t upgraded to iOS 26 because now my phone is notably laggy. Word to the wise. I use swiping for input and would consider it now unusable due to extreme lag. The physical aspect I can’t give up is I can hold the phone with my thumb on the bottom and my middle finger on the top and scroll with my index finger to read. Wish I could buy that capability on a new iPhone, maybe one even slightly smaller. Time to go find out if there’s even a way to downgrade, oof this is slow.
  - endemic 1y ago
    Yeah, the last supported OS upgrade for iPhones really makes them dog slow. (no idea if this is actually the last for the 12 series)
- FranzFerdiNaN 1y ago
  I still have a 12 mini as a work phone and that thing is great. My personal phone is a 16 pro and the only real advantage it has (for me) is the 120hz screen and the way better battery. I actively hate it's weight, especially combined with a case.
- davey48016 1y ago
  >Sent from my iPhone 13 mini, which is also Too Damn Big. As someone with small hands, I kind of regret my iPhone 13 mini. I really want something smaller, but if I have to have a phone I can't hold well in one hand, I might as well have a bigger screen.
anonzzzies 1y ago
In my hands the 16 pro max looks small. I only care about battery life really and it is really not great so I wouldn't mind a double thickness: larger dimensions all over in favor of battery and screen. Huawei used to have one (in 2016 or so?) that was perfect: massive slab, super battery. But then we needed all slimmer and smaller (after the asia phablet hype?). Battery life on iphones is not good if you use it a lot. I am in a coworking space and literally all iphone users have to plug in somewhere during the day as most use it all day and it conks out: I am on my chinese android all day and end of the day it's 60%+. I guess my hands are an exception, but I cannot stand dragging all kinds of crap with me because everyone wants the thinnest, smallest devices.
- josteink 1y ago
  > In my hands the 16 pro max looks small. I only care about battery life really and it is really not great The Max version may have room for a bigger battery, but it needs to drive a bigger screen so it’s a double-edged sword. I’m not sure if you end up ahead or not. If battery life is an issue you can turn off some the more gimmicky «pro» features like the always on screen. I have a «regular» 15 pro and I think battery life is good. I haven’t had a single day where overrun out of battery so far.
  - rxyz 1y ago
    The Max phones always have better battery life
  - anonzzzies 1y ago
    My 16 pro max is on battery saving mode always and always runs out before the day is over.
leokennis 1y ago
I'm with you. My phone is my primary computer. I want it to have the most computing power, battery life, storage, and camera performance possible. I don't really care for its looks as long as it meets a certain baseline.
starky 1y ago
>I personally don’t consider the iPhone 17 Pro to be too big or chunky. I’m generally happy to sacrifice an extra millimeter of thickness for better battery life, and enjoy the usability of larger screen sizes. The difference in people's opinions about this are interesting. I've got larger than average hands (e.g. XL rubber gloves are a tight fit) and don't understand how normal people can handle large phones. I just moved from a 6.7" to a 6.2" phone and can't overstate how much more comfortable it is to handle the smaller phone. It is unfortunate that phone manufacturers make the same phones as each other and that there is practically no variability on the market. >I’m at a point in my life where spending $1100 on a new iPhone every few years isn’t going to break the bank I hate this statement. I don't care if I can afford an expensive device if it doesn't provide the value over the lifetime of the product. Why do phones that only last 2-3 years cost as much as my laptop that can last longer than that and do so much more?
- freetime2 1y ago
  > I hate this statement. I don't care if I can afford an expensive device if it doesn't provide the value over the lifetime of the product. Why do phones that only last 2-3 years cost as much as my laptop that can last longer than that and do so much more? Hate is a strong word. Why should my opinions on iPhone upgrades provoke feelings of hatred in you? I also disagree with the premise. My current phone is 4 years old, and as I mentioned I plan to give it to someone who will probably use it for another 3+ years. Or I could have traded it in or resold it to a someone else who can use it. So I wouldn't say modern phones last 2-3 years, more like 7+ years. The iPhone 6s, which was released 10 years ago, just got a security update from Apple this month - so someone must still be using it. I also disagree that laptops can do more than smartphones. Smartphones have different hardware like GPS, cellular radios, and more advanced cameras. They are also more portable (and miniaturization is expensive). And recently smartphone hardware is just as powerful as can be found in many laptops. Apple is even rumored to be making a low-cost laptop powered by the same A-series chips that they use in iPhones. A smartphone is not necessarily any better or worse than a laptop, it's just a computer in a different form factor that excels in different use cases. > it doesn't provide the value over the lifetime of the product It does provide value to me. As a photography hobbyist, I'm primarily interested in the camera updates (side note: if you compare iPhone prices to standalone camera prices like the recently-released Fujifilm X Half at $849, I think the iPhone 17 Pro is actually a pretty good value when judged solely on its merits as a tool for taking photos and video). But there are a bunch of other nice-to-have updates (wifi 7, bigger battery, brighter screen, etc). If there were no value to me in upgrading, then I wouldn't upgrade. I'm not saying that people should upgrade every few years even if there is no compelling reason, but rather that the financial burden of upgrading every few years is minimal for lots of people. I'd also point out that the iPhone Pro line is a premium device, and very few people need one (myself included). Apple sells other iPhone models starting at $599 (iPhone 16e) and going up from there. Or you can buy a refurb iPhone 14 on Amazon for $330, and probably get several years of use out of it at least. Or you can go with Samsung or Motorola and get a brand new, totally functional smartphone for under $200 (though these budget phones will probably turn into e-waste a lot sooner than a new iPhone). If you don't see any value in shelling out $1100 for the latest and greatest iPhone, then there's no need to. When it comes time to buy a new smartphone, I'm sure there will be something out there with a price and feature set that makes sense for you. Value is very subjective depending on personal preferences/needs and budget. I don't see any point in hating that fact.
riebalas 1y ago
Except it’s 24-100 mm. They’re scamming with the 8x “optical quality” claims. Every year the scams (aka marketing) get deeper, Apple wasn’t as bad in the past. The “Air” one is probably a test if they could stop those camera scams and simplify the phone maybe focusing on some other things. It barely even matters, one lens is enough, if you need more you’ll want a proper camera anyway. This year I’d say the phone itself looks like some joke. From orange colors — probably some “diversity” team though it would be funny, because they don’t like the president — to overall cheap looking design, which looks like some unfinished AI generated, 3D printed prototype. You can tell Ive is gone and nobody replaced him. At least they still have some engineers who scored big with the M chips back in 2020, but barely anyone cares about the chips anymore, they’re all good enough today and competition somewhat caught up.
- snowwrestler 1y ago
  > orange colors — probably some “diversity” team though it would be funny, because they don’t like the president For sure, anything orange is obviously a reference to the U.S. president. I’m hearing that liberals are planning a mass protest of carving scary faces into pumpkins in about 6 weeks.
  - riebalas 1y ago
    Not that big of a stretch. Apple numerous of times was involved politically, like disabling parts of Apple Music and encouraging to protest because a drug addict was killed. Also the pride wallpapers, what is that all about? What if I want MAGA wallpapers? Wouldn’t people mind some of those on their iPhones?
- freetime2 1y ago
  > Except it’s 24-100 mm. I guess the proper claim would be to say that it has three prime lenses at 13mm, 24mm, and 100mm equivalents. The larger sensors in the 13mm and 100mm cameras, along with improvements in processing, should make for a significant upgrade over my current iPhone. I agree that Apple's "optical quality" claims are BS. I was actually so confused initially by the claim that I had to do some research to figure out if they are doing anything special to claim "optical quality" zoom on a fixed lens. There is some computational photography going on that may muddy the waters a bit, but I'd definitely still call it a digital zoom. That being said, the 48MP sensors do provide some latitude for cropping that wasn't available in the older 12 MP sensors. A very charitable reading would be that this "8 pro lenses in one" claim, all of which match the "optical quality" of the previous generation of sensors is the simplest way that Apple's marketing team could describe the increased versality to regular users without resorting to jargon that only photographers would understand. But still... it feels like false advertising to me. Regarding the design - I actually view the orange color as being a nod to the Apple Watch Ultra and its orange accents. My impression is that they are going with a more rugged, masculine look with the iPhone 17 Pro. The "PRO" lettering almost feels like something you'd see in an ad for a pickup truck. This is in contrast to the more elegant, feminine look for the iPhone Air. I think this differentiation could actually be a successful strategy for Apple, and I also think that one reason that most of the tech reviewers and commenters on HN don't see the point of the Air is because that demographic tends to be largely male.
barnabee 1y ago
I should be firmly in this market. Indeed, I was about to order a 17 Pro just for the camera upgrade (coming from a 15 Pro). Then I installed iOS 26. I think I hate it. It might be the last straw. I’m seriously considering taking the plunge and switching from iOS, which I’ve used since the iPhone 3G, to GrapheneOS on a Pixel 9 Pro. It’s not just iOS (which is all three of worse, buggier, and slower) but also the direction of travel for Apple as a whole.
- DavideNL 1y ago
  Will the pixel 10 be supported too, i wonder…
  - barnabee 1y ago
    Eventually, I expect it to be

hedora 1y ago

The air is too big and clunky from me. Sent from my iPhone 13 mini, which is also Too Damn Big. I’m got above average size human hands, which are too small even for the mini.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
DanHulton 1y ago
I, too, am still rocking the 13 mini, which they made good enough that nothing they've made since has made me wish to upgrade, though the fact that every phone since is Too Damn Big has made me happy I haven't yet. We've got about three years left before these things are unsupported. Three years of hope for them to release _something_ a little smaller than "uncomfortably large."
- smallstepforman 1y ago
  Also on 13 mini. But my next phone needs a better camera, and the cellular radio reception needs to be better (my 13 mini loses network connection in weak areas faster than my wifes 15 or sons 16 pro does - they stay online, I’m out). I love smaller phones though (hence the 13 mini).
  - simondotau 1y ago
    The problem is there aren't enough people buying mini phones to make it worthwhile to Apple. But that's only if they keep a mini around permanently. However if Apple released a new iPhone mini model every fourth year, I'd wager these would be like a McRib-style smash hit sales event, compressing the comparatively small mini-enthusiast audience into a time-limited buying window. It would also trigger FOMO at a time when many people are increasingly willing to delay upgrades for 5+ years.
    - snickell 1y ago
      This is a brilliant idea, I really hope somebody on the iPhone 18 design team reads it. I think there’s a huge pent up demand for a mini model, many of us would pay more for it than the large versions.
    - dwayne_dibley 1y ago
      This is what I'm banking on. I really want a new mini next year.
      - codyb 1y ago
        If anyone from Apple is reading this and wants more support for another mini model, here I am. Rocking a 13 mini for personal use and a 12 mini for work, no plans to upgrade until another mini comes out or these die in which case I will consider all options (although, will happily upgrade to another Mini should one come out).
snickell 1y ago
On an iPhone 12 mini, wishing I hadn’t upgraded to iOS 26 because now my phone is notably laggy. Word to the wise. I use swiping for input and would consider it now unusable due to extreme lag. The physical aspect I can’t give up is I can hold the phone with my thumb on the bottom and my middle finger on the top and scroll with my index finger to read. Wish I could buy that capability on a new iPhone, maybe one even slightly smaller. Time to go find out if there’s even a way to downgrade, oof this is slow.
- endemic 1y ago
  Yeah, the last supported OS upgrade for iPhones really makes them dog slow. (no idea if this is actually the last for the 12 series)
FranzFerdiNaN 1y ago
I still have a 12 mini as a work phone and that thing is great. My personal phone is a 16 pro and the only real advantage it has (for me) is the 120hz screen and the way better battery. I actively hate it's weight, especially combined with a case.
davey48016 1y ago
>Sent from my iPhone 13 mini, which is also Too Damn Big. As someone with small hands, I kind of regret my iPhone 13 mini. I really want something smaller, but if I have to have a phone I can't hold well in one hand, I might as well have a bigger screen.

anonzzzies 1y ago

In my hands the 16 pro max looks small. I only care about battery life really and it is really not great so I wouldn't mind a double thickness: larger dimensions all over in favor of battery and screen. Huawei used to have one (in 2016 or so?) that was perfect: massive slab, super battery. But then we needed all slimmer and smaller (after the asia phablet hype?). Battery life on iphones is not good if you use it a lot. I am in a coworking space and literally all iphone users have to plug in somewhere during the day as most use it all day and it conks out: I am on my chinese android all day and end of the day it's 60%+. I guess my hands are an exception, but I cannot stand dragging all kinds of crap with me because everyone wants the thinnest, smallest devices.

josteink 1y ago
> In my hands the 16 pro max looks small. I only care about battery life really and it is really not great The Max version may have room for a bigger battery, but it needs to drive a bigger screen so it’s a double-edged sword. I’m not sure if you end up ahead or not. If battery life is an issue you can turn off some the more gimmicky «pro» features like the always on screen. I have a «regular» 15 pro and I think battery life is good. I haven’t had a single day where overrun out of battery so far.
- rxyz 1y ago
  The Max phones always have better battery life
- anonzzzies 1y ago
  My 16 pro max is on battery saving mode always and always runs out before the day is over.

leokennis 1y ago

I'm with you. My phone is my primary computer. I want it to have the most computing power, battery life, storage, and camera performance possible. I don't really care for its looks as long as it meets a certain baseline.

starky 1y ago

>I personally don’t consider the iPhone 17 Pro to be too big or chunky. I’m generally happy to sacrifice an extra millimeter of thickness for better battery life, and enjoy the usability of larger screen sizes. The difference in people's opinions about this are interesting. I've got larger than average hands (e.g. XL rubber gloves are a tight fit) and don't understand how normal people can handle large phones. I just moved from a 6.7" to a 6.2" phone and can't overstate how much more comfortable it is to handle the smaller phone. It is unfortunate that phone manufacturers make the same phones as each other and that there is practically no variability on the market. >I’m at a point in my life where spending $1100 on a new iPhone every few years isn’t going to break the bank I hate this statement. I don't care if I can afford an expensive device if it doesn't provide the value over the lifetime of the product. Why do phones that only last 2-3 years cost as much as my laptop that can last longer than that and do so much more?

freetime2 1y ago
> I hate this statement. I don't care if I can afford an expensive device if it doesn't provide the value over the lifetime of the product. Why do phones that only last 2-3 years cost as much as my laptop that can last longer than that and do so much more? Hate is a strong word. Why should my opinions on iPhone upgrades provoke feelings of hatred in you? I also disagree with the premise. My current phone is 4 years old, and as I mentioned I plan to give it to someone who will probably use it for another 3+ years. Or I could have traded it in or resold it to a someone else who can use it. So I wouldn't say modern phones last 2-3 years, more like 7+ years. The iPhone 6s, which was released 10 years ago, just got a security update from Apple this month - so someone must still be using it. I also disagree that laptops can do more than smartphones. Smartphones have different hardware like GPS, cellular radios, and more advanced cameras. They are also more portable (and miniaturization is expensive). And recently smartphone hardware is just as powerful as can be found in many laptops. Apple is even rumored to be making a low-cost laptop powered by the same A-series chips that they use in iPhones. A smartphone is not necessarily any better or worse than a laptop, it's just a computer in a different form factor that excels in different use cases. > it doesn't provide the value over the lifetime of the product It does provide value to me. As a photography hobbyist, I'm primarily interested in the camera updates (side note: if you compare iPhone prices to standalone camera prices like the recently-released Fujifilm X Half at $849, I think the iPhone 17 Pro is actually a pretty good value when judged solely on its merits as a tool for taking photos and video). But there are a bunch of other nice-to-have updates (wifi 7, bigger battery, brighter screen, etc). If there were no value to me in upgrading, then I wouldn't upgrade. I'm not saying that people should upgrade every few years even if there is no compelling reason, but rather that the financial burden of upgrading every few years is minimal for lots of people. I'd also point out that the iPhone Pro line is a premium device, and very few people need one (myself included). Apple sells other iPhone models starting at $599 (iPhone 16e) and going up from there. Or you can buy a refurb iPhone 14 on Amazon for $330, and probably get several years of use out of it at least. Or you can go with Samsung or Motorola and get a brand new, totally functional smartphone for under $200 (though these budget phones will probably turn into e-waste a lot sooner than a new iPhone). If you don't see any value in shelling out $1100 for the latest and greatest iPhone, then there's no need to. When it comes time to buy a new smartphone, I'm sure there will be something out there with a price and feature set that makes sense for you. Value is very subjective depending on personal preferences/needs and budget. I don't see any point in hating that fact.

riebalas 1y ago

Except it’s 24-100 mm. They’re scamming with the 8x “optical quality” claims. Every year the scams (aka marketing) get deeper, Apple wasn’t as bad in the past. The “Air” one is probably a test if they could stop those camera scams and simplify the phone maybe focusing on some other things. It barely even matters, one lens is enough, if you need more you’ll want a proper camera anyway. This year I’d say the phone itself looks like some joke. From orange colors — probably some “diversity” team though it would be funny, because they don’t like the president — to overall cheap looking design, which looks like some unfinished AI generated, 3D printed prototype. You can tell Ive is gone and nobody replaced him. At least they still have some engineers who scored big with the M chips back in 2020, but barely anyone cares about the chips anymore, they’re all good enough today and competition somewhat caught up.

snowwrestler 1y ago
> orange colors — probably some “diversity” team though it would be funny, because they don’t like the president For sure, anything orange is obviously a reference to the U.S. president. I’m hearing that liberals are planning a mass protest of carving scary faces into pumpkins in about 6 weeks.
- riebalas 1y ago
  Not that big of a stretch. Apple numerous of times was involved politically, like disabling parts of Apple Music and encouraging to protest because a drug addict was killed. Also the pride wallpapers, what is that all about? What if I want MAGA wallpapers? Wouldn’t people mind some of those on their iPhones?
freetime2 1y ago
> Except it’s 24-100 mm. I guess the proper claim would be to say that it has three prime lenses at 13mm, 24mm, and 100mm equivalents. The larger sensors in the 13mm and 100mm cameras, along with improvements in processing, should make for a significant upgrade over my current iPhone. I agree that Apple's "optical quality" claims are BS. I was actually so confused initially by the claim that I had to do some research to figure out if they are doing anything special to claim "optical quality" zoom on a fixed lens. There is some computational photography going on that may muddy the waters a bit, but I'd definitely still call it a digital zoom. That being said, the 48MP sensors do provide some latitude for cropping that wasn't available in the older 12 MP sensors. A very charitable reading would be that this "8 pro lenses in one" claim, all of which match the "optical quality" of the previous generation of sensors is the simplest way that Apple's marketing team could describe the increased versality to regular users without resorting to jargon that only photographers would understand. But still... it feels like false advertising to me. Regarding the design - I actually view the orange color as being a nod to the Apple Watch Ultra and its orange accents. My impression is that they are going with a more rugged, masculine look with the iPhone 17 Pro. The "PRO" lettering almost feels like something you'd see in an ad for a pickup truck. This is in contrast to the more elegant, feminine look for the iPhone Air. I think this differentiation could actually be a successful strategy for Apple, and I also think that one reason that most of the tech reviewers and commenters on HN don't see the point of the Air is because that demographic tends to be largely male.

barnabee 1y ago

I should be firmly in this market. Indeed, I was about to order a 17 Pro just for the camera upgrade (coming from a 15 Pro). Then I installed iOS 26. I think I hate it. It might be the last straw. I’m seriously considering taking the plunge and switching from iOS, which I’ve used since the iPhone 3G, to GrapheneOS on a Pixel 9 Pro. It’s not just iOS (which is all three of worse, buggier, and slower) but also the direction of travel for Apple as a whole.

DavideNL 1y ago
Will the pixel 10 be supported too, i wonder…
- barnabee 1y ago
  Eventually, I expect it to be