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Moderate Islam has been compatible with science (well scientism) in the past but you can't reason from the specific to the general. A fundamentalist/hyper-dogm

by Steko 14y ago

Moderate Islam has been compatible with science (well scientism) in the past but you can't reason from the specific to the general. A fundamentalist/hyper-dogmatic flavor of any belief system is by it's nature an intolerant breeding ground for ignorance and xenophobia. "something is wrong" This is where people tend to, wrongly, paint with the biggest brushes.

jlgreco 14y ago
Listen, I'm an atheist; more to the point, I am an anti-theist. I think there is a lot wrong with religion in general, and a hell of a lot with this one in particular. I mention this only to emphasise that I have no natural inclination to defend Islam. I just really don't see it being the root cause in this situation. It seems to me that the religion is more a product of an unhealthy culture. It is no coincidence that the wants, desires, and prejudices of gods so often resemble that of their followers. This religion did not appear out of thin air, it was borne of the culture it resembles. It is when you see the religion spreading other contexts (primarily location or time) that you see it become "moderate". People ignore the parts they don't like. The religion isn't causing this. At best, I'll concede that it is acting as a conduit to siphon an obsolete and brutal culture from the past into the present. I do maintain that it is culture that is wrong here, regardless of where it comes from or how it got here.
- Steko 14y ago
  I don't think we're at odds on Islam. I'm not blaming Islam was just pointing out the fallacy I saw there. "it is culture" Few points: (1) Culture is a sort of catchall term for anything that's not genetics. Whatever 'this' is that we are talking about, it's going to be pretty easy to file it under culture. (2) What exactly is 'this' we're talking about? The latest violence in Libya/Egypt and elsewhere correct? How is this fundamentally different from riots/mob violence/brutish behavior in other cultures? When we raise the flag of culture the quick litmus test should be whether other cultures (controlling for other dimensions as much as possible) also show the same symptoms.
  - jlgreco 14y ago
    I don't think we actually really disagree here at all. I was objecting mostly to the perceived sentiment that the idea of one culture being better than another is DOA.

by Steko 14y ago

jlgreco 14y ago

Listen, I'm an atheist; more to the point, I am an anti-theist. I think there is a lot wrong with religion in general, and a hell of a lot with this one in particular. I mention this only to emphasise that I have no natural inclination to defend Islam. I just really don't see it being the root cause in this situation. It seems to me that the religion is more a product of an unhealthy culture. It is no coincidence that the wants, desires, and prejudices of gods so often resemble that of their followers. This religion did not appear out of thin air, it was borne of the culture it resembles. It is when you see the religion spreading other contexts (primarily location or time) that you see it become "moderate". People ignore the parts they don't like. The religion isn't causing this. At best, I'll concede that it is acting as a conduit to siphon an obsolete and brutal culture from the past into the present. I do maintain that it is culture that is wrong here, regardless of where it comes from or how it got here.

Steko 14y ago
I don't think we're at odds on Islam. I'm not blaming Islam was just pointing out the fallacy I saw there. "it is culture" Few points: (1) Culture is a sort of catchall term for anything that's not genetics. Whatever 'this' is that we are talking about, it's going to be pretty easy to file it under culture. (2) What exactly is 'this' we're talking about? The latest violence in Libya/Egypt and elsewhere correct? How is this fundamentally different from riots/mob violence/brutish behavior in other cultures? When we raise the flag of culture the quick litmus test should be whether other cultures (controlling for other dimensions as much as possible) also show the same symptoms.
- jlgreco 14y ago
  I don't think we actually really disagree here at all. I was objecting mostly to the perceived sentiment that the idea of one culture being better than another is DOA.