3 ms·

It was connected to an Orbs 32” PicoBalloon https://balloons.online/orbs-32-clear/ https://balloons.online/orbs-32-clear/ I used 36 awg wire and fishing line.

It was connected to an Orbs 32” PicoBalloon https://balloons.online/orbs-32-clear/ https://balloons.online/orbs-32-clear/ I used 36 awg wire and fishing line. The lower half of the dipole is also 36 awg wire. No flight clearances are required If any aircraft were to hit it, then it would be obliterated. This includes Cessna’s as well

rogerrogerr 1y ago
As a bugsmasher pilot, I’d be most worried about 40k ft of fishing line wrapping itself around the spinny bits on the front. What’s the tensile strength on that stuff? Doubt it’d cause an immediate issue, but doesn’t sound very fun to remove.
- firesteelrain 1y ago
  3-6 newtons or about 0.7-1.3 pounds-force Also it’s not 40k ft of wire. Altitude is 40k ft The wire is about 16 ft for one leg of the dipole. That is the taught part. The other just floats in mid air underneath the payload The community is very small and doubtful the sky will be filled with them The balloons follow the jetstream from where they are launched. I have seen them fly over the Artic Circle, for example
  - timeinput 1y ago
    I think there was confusion about whether it was tethered / what the tensile strength of the tether was. Reads like it wasn't tethered. How did you communicate with it? Amateur bands? LoRa?
    - firesteelrain 1y ago
      Yes, it is not tethered to the ground. The balloon is at the top, then 36awg wire, then solar panels and raspberry pi, then wire hanging down for lower half of dipole Both top and lower part of dipoles are soldered to Raspberry Pi It uses WSPR. Some of them use APRS but it is less common
    - LeifCarrotson 1y ago
      These and other high-altitude balloons are almost never tethered nor recovered - they're not a kite, that would be completely impractical. You're nearing the altitudes at which the tensile strength of even supermaterials like Dyneema fibers are unable to lift the weight of their own tail, much less hold up against the tension of the jet stream. You'd need some kind of reverse rocket equation pyramid, where the topmost thousand meters have to lift the entire line, and are therefore made from line 0.6mm in diameter, and the next thousand meters are made of a slightly thinner, slightly less strong, slightly lighter fiber (because they don't have to lift the top thousand meters of line), and so on for the next 50-100km, depending on how much sag you expect the line to have. "Oops, the balloon popped, excuse me while I do an ultramarathon across town spooling up my thousand-dollar tether from everyone's backyards...please don't cut it or trip over it or drive over it..." No, it merely trails a 5 meter length of wire that acts as an antenna. You can receive the signals from hundreds of amateur receivers set up across the globe, often receiving transmissions at very long ranges. When the balloon eventually falls, yes, it's litter, but it's only a couple grams - go to your local park and pick up some trash, you can atone for a lifetime of HAB hobby sins with a single black bag full of alcohol bottles, fast food wrappers, and cigarette buts.
      - dylan604 1y ago
        > almost never tethered yet you can't say never, hence the question. balloons are launched for different purposes. if you're trying to keep a balloon on station to gather local data, it's gotta be tethered. maybe not typical of a 40k' altitude, but they definitely use tethered balloons.
        firesteelrain 1y ago
        You are right; but in this case the topic was picoballoons which are free floating
  - rogerrogerr 1y ago
    Got it. Really cool project.
- dylan604 1y ago
  if you're not familiar, 36AWG wire is thin. very thin. according to [0], it is 0.1270mm. seems to me that it might melt free from friction thin. [0] https://size-charts.com/topics/house-size-chart/wire-size-chart-get-the-right-siz/ https://size-charts.com/topics/house-size-chart/wire-size-ch...
  - rogerrogerr 1y ago
    I’m familiar; I thought this was tethered to the ground. But it’s self contained within a few meters at 40k ft - not a problem. I do suspect if you encountered small gauge fishing line being used as a tether, you’d find at least some of it wrapped tightly around your spinner on the ground. Probably not much friction at play.
dylan604 1y ago
No radar reflectors or blinking lights of any sort? The little flights up to 90k' with a parachute return required those for night flights. Maybe most people just ignore that??
- firesteelrain 1y ago
  It’s not required at all. These are so small that they are not covered by like FAA type regulations
bonyt 1y ago
I think you can file a NOTAM for a weather balloon even if you don't need clearance. Might depend on the size and payload, though, like if it's closer to a party balloon than a real weather balloon, and how high it's going.
- firesteelrain 1y ago
  14 CFR Part 101, Subpart D – Unmanned Free Balloons excludes PicoBalloons due to their size and form
  - dylan604 1y ago
    That would explain the difference in experiences. My balloon was 8' diameter at launch and expanded to ~40' when it burst at ~90k'. Mine needed the radar reflector and blinky lights. They were supposed to blink at a certain rate, but we cheated and had lights blinking faster as that's all we could find for our budget/schedule.
    - firesteelrain 1y ago
      I would love to launch a HAB. I learned how to do PicoBalloons from a local group.
gtoubassi 1y ago
If you have any details written up on your kit (in partic what solar you used) I'd appreciate a link. I'm looking to do similar
- firesteelrain 1y ago
  https://traquito.github.io/ https://traquito.github.io/ https://www.zachtek.com/product-page/wspr-tx-pico-transmitter https://www.zachtek.com/product-page/wspr-tx-pico-transmitte... Solar cells are polycrystalline. You can buy them on AliExpress (very brittle - takes practice soldering them) I didn’t use the Traquito Solar truss. Too hard to solder. I used a foam dinner plate and solar tabbing wire
5d41402abc4b 1y ago
What happens if there are heavy winds?
- firesteelrain 1y ago
  It can crash.

rogerrogerr 1y ago

As a bugsmasher pilot, I’d be most worried about 40k ft of fishing line wrapping itself around the spinny bits on the front. What’s the tensile strength on that stuff? Doubt it’d cause an immediate issue, but doesn’t sound very fun to remove.

firesteelrain 1y ago
3-6 newtons or about 0.7-1.3 pounds-force Also it’s not 40k ft of wire. Altitude is 40k ft The wire is about 16 ft for one leg of the dipole. That is the taught part. The other just floats in mid air underneath the payload The community is very small and doubtful the sky will be filled with them The balloons follow the jetstream from where they are launched. I have seen them fly over the Artic Circle, for example
- timeinput 1y ago
  I think there was confusion about whether it was tethered / what the tensile strength of the tether was. Reads like it wasn't tethered. How did you communicate with it? Amateur bands? LoRa?
  - firesteelrain 1y ago
    Yes, it is not tethered to the ground. The balloon is at the top, then 36awg wire, then solar panels and raspberry pi, then wire hanging down for lower half of dipole Both top and lower part of dipoles are soldered to Raspberry Pi It uses WSPR. Some of them use APRS but it is less common
  - LeifCarrotson 1y ago
    These and other high-altitude balloons are almost never tethered nor recovered - they're not a kite, that would be completely impractical. You're nearing the altitudes at which the tensile strength of even supermaterials like Dyneema fibers are unable to lift the weight of their own tail, much less hold up against the tension of the jet stream. You'd need some kind of reverse rocket equation pyramid, where the topmost thousand meters have to lift the entire line, and are therefore made from line 0.6mm in diameter, and the next thousand meters are made of a slightly thinner, slightly less strong, slightly lighter fiber (because they don't have to lift the top thousand meters of line), and so on for the next 50-100km, depending on how much sag you expect the line to have. "Oops, the balloon popped, excuse me while I do an ultramarathon across town spooling up my thousand-dollar tether from everyone's backyards...please don't cut it or trip over it or drive over it..." No, it merely trails a 5 meter length of wire that acts as an antenna. You can receive the signals from hundreds of amateur receivers set up across the globe, often receiving transmissions at very long ranges. When the balloon eventually falls, yes, it's litter, but it's only a couple grams - go to your local park and pick up some trash, you can atone for a lifetime of HAB hobby sins with a single black bag full of alcohol bottles, fast food wrappers, and cigarette buts.
    - dylan604 1y ago
      > almost never tethered yet you can't say never, hence the question. balloons are launched for different purposes. if you're trying to keep a balloon on station to gather local data, it's gotta be tethered. maybe not typical of a 40k' altitude, but they definitely use tethered balloons.
      - firesteelrain 1y ago
        You are right; but in this case the topic was picoballoons which are free floating
- rogerrogerr 1y ago
  Got it. Really cool project.
dylan604 1y ago
if you're not familiar, 36AWG wire is thin. very thin. according to [0], it is 0.1270mm. seems to me that it might melt free from friction thin. [0] https://size-charts.com/topics/house-size-chart/wire-size-chart-get-the-right-siz/ https://size-charts.com/topics/house-size-chart/wire-size-ch...
- rogerrogerr 1y ago
  I’m familiar; I thought this was tethered to the ground. But it’s self contained within a few meters at 40k ft - not a problem. I do suspect if you encountered small gauge fishing line being used as a tether, you’d find at least some of it wrapped tightly around your spinner on the ground. Probably not much friction at play.

dylan604 1y ago

No radar reflectors or blinking lights of any sort? The little flights up to 90k' with a parachute return required those for night flights. Maybe most people just ignore that??

firesteelrain 1y ago
It’s not required at all. These are so small that they are not covered by like FAA type regulations

bonyt 1y ago

I think you can file a NOTAM for a weather balloon even if you don't need clearance. Might depend on the size and payload, though, like if it's closer to a party balloon than a real weather balloon, and how high it's going.

firesteelrain 1y ago
14 CFR Part 101, Subpart D – Unmanned Free Balloons excludes PicoBalloons due to their size and form
- dylan604 1y ago
  That would explain the difference in experiences. My balloon was 8' diameter at launch and expanded to ~40' when it burst at ~90k'. Mine needed the radar reflector and blinky lights. They were supposed to blink at a certain rate, but we cheated and had lights blinking faster as that's all we could find for our budget/schedule.
  - firesteelrain 1y ago
    I would love to launch a HAB. I learned how to do PicoBalloons from a local group.

gtoubassi 1y ago

If you have any details written up on your kit (in partic what solar you used) I'd appreciate a link. I'm looking to do similar

firesteelrain 1y ago
https://traquito.github.io/ https://traquito.github.io/ https://www.zachtek.com/product-page/wspr-tx-pico-transmitter https://www.zachtek.com/product-page/wspr-tx-pico-transmitte... Solar cells are polycrystalline. You can buy them on AliExpress (very brittle - takes practice soldering them) I didn’t use the Traquito Solar truss. Too hard to solder. I used a foam dinner plate and solar tabbing wire

5d41402abc4b 1y ago

What happens if there are heavy winds?

firesteelrain 1y ago
It can crash.