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That's arguably the worst argument given that the author has no special authority over the interpretation of the work. Heinlein with his increasingly militarist

That's arguably the worst argument given that the author has no special authority over the interpretation of the work. Heinlein with his increasingly militaristic views wrote Starship Troopers as a sincere story, but Paul Verhoeven showed quite compellingly that it might make for better satire.

falcor84 1y ago
That's actually an ironic example, seeing how so many (maybe most) viewers took the intended satire at face value, essentially looping all the way back to Heinlein's intent.
- pessimizer 1y ago
  The best satire is always convincing to its targets, because it doesn't misrepresent their positions. The Prince may be satire; who knows what was in Machiavelli's head.
  - username332211 1y ago
    Doesn't the guy have another book - The Discourses on Livy, that confirms the general gist of The Prince? (i.e. autocracies are horrible, to be a successful autocrat you need to be brutal and ruthless)
  - FrustratedMonky 1y ago
    Exactly. Even today, a lot of satire aimed at the 'right', viewed from the 'right's perspective is not realized as satire and is viewed like someone is trying to make a real point. They can't tell it is satire.
BoingBoomTschak 1y ago
Didn't Verhoeven famously not read the book? Hard to call it "satire" then, "straw man" might be more accurate.
- justin66 1y ago
  Perhaps less famously, Edward Neumeier wrote his screenplay.
- johnnyfived 1y ago
  I hadn't heard that before but I agree with you, it doesn't qualify as satire if he didn't even bother to consume the source material. At least not in the literary sense.
koverstreet 1y ago
You could only think Heinlein had militaristic views if that was the only book of his you read. Read another book of his and you'd think he was a communist, another an anarchist, et cetera. He liked to explore ideas. If there's one thing that's reasonably consistent across his work, it's his belief in individual agency.

falcor84 1y ago

That's actually an ironic example, seeing how so many (maybe most) viewers took the intended satire at face value, essentially looping all the way back to Heinlein's intent.

pessimizer 1y ago
The best satire is always convincing to its targets, because it doesn't misrepresent their positions. The Prince may be satire; who knows what was in Machiavelli's head.
- username332211 1y ago
  Doesn't the guy have another book - The Discourses on Livy, that confirms the general gist of The Prince? (i.e. autocracies are horrible, to be a successful autocrat you need to be brutal and ruthless)
- FrustratedMonky 1y ago
  Exactly. Even today, a lot of satire aimed at the 'right', viewed from the 'right's perspective is not realized as satire and is viewed like someone is trying to make a real point. They can't tell it is satire.

BoingBoomTschak 1y ago

Didn't Verhoeven famously not read the book? Hard to call it "satire" then, "straw man" might be more accurate.

justin66 1y ago
Perhaps less famously, Edward Neumeier wrote his screenplay.
johnnyfived 1y ago
I hadn't heard that before but I agree with you, it doesn't qualify as satire if he didn't even bother to consume the source material. At least not in the literary sense.

koverstreet 1y ago

You could only think Heinlein had militaristic views if that was the only book of his you read. Read another book of his and you'd think he was a communist, another an anarchist, et cetera. He liked to explore ideas. If there's one thing that's reasonably consistent across his work, it's his belief in individual agency.