6 ms·

I don't like RISC-V unless it has a good GPU

by kirito1337 1y ago

warrenm 1y ago
GPUs are [effectively] irrelevant for many use cases (IoT, embedded, most servers, etc)
- _zoltan_ 1y ago
  the title says "... AI projects". now, maybe our definitions are different, but you probably want some hardware acceleration.
  - jdiaz97 1y ago
    The chip (KY X1) comes with AI acceleration...
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    Most likely comming in vector, matrix instructions or NPU like chipsets, not necessarly GPUs.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - dlcarrier 1y ago
    Low-power processors rarely have the AI accelerated instructions in the GPU, instead opting either for dedicated matrix/tensor cores, or as is used in the case, adding the acceleration instructions directly to the CPU core. This results in a higher performance per Watt, but doesn't scale well to higher-power applications.
- Joel_Mckay 1y ago
  On Raspberry Pi, the GPU is the only thing that makes a responsive GUI or web-browser feasible, and is the primary reason most people use the HDMI LCD screens for games etc. It also took a large effort to bring up a v4l2 kernel driver for the camera modules etc. For example, on the CPU one may pin all cores to stream a USB camera or software decode h264. With the SoC GPU decoding or streaming with the v4l2 interface might take up 30% on one core (mainly to handle the network traffic.) The Raspberry Pi are not the fastest or "best" option (most focus on h264 or MJPEG hardware codecs), but the software/kernel ecosystem provides real value. Also, the foundation doesn't EOL their hardware often, or abandon software support after a single OS release. A cheap RISC-V SBC is great, but ISA versions are generally so fractured (copied the worst ideas of ARM6)... few OS will likely waste resources targeting a platform that will have 5 variants a year, and proprietary drivers. A Standard doesn't even need to be good, but must be consistent to succeed. =3
snvzz 1y ago
Attach your favourite GPU at the PCIe slot.
webdevver 1y ago
they all suck. someone needs to make an open source gpu already, its been way too long.
- ekianjo 1y ago
  It's probably a series of patent landmines...
  - AnthonyMouse 1y ago
    Hardware patents are orthogonal to open source software. If a patent covers the hardware then someone who wants to manufacture the hardware needs to license the patent, but you were never going to get free-as-in-beer hardware anyway, and a hardware patent is independent of whether the hardware is fully documented or has firmware with published source code and a license that allows users to make changes to it.
    - Joel_Mckay 1y ago
      Indeed, most IP used in silicon design are licensed, cost real money, and are under NDA. I wouldn't say "never", but a clone is highly unlikely for another decade or so. =3
      - AnthonyMouse 1y ago
        NDAs in the context of a patent license should legitimately be considered grounds for patent invalidation. Patent literally means "open to public inspection" and the entire premise is that you get a temporary monopoly in exchange for openly documenting how your invention works in the published patent. If there is something about the invention for an NDA to cover it means you left it out of the patent application, which is essentially an admission of wrongdoing. A patent is an alternative to a trade secret. You can't eat your cake and still have it.
        Joel_Mckay 1y ago
rjsw 1y ago
RISC-V designs typically have an Imagination Technologies GPU, some support for them is in recent versions of Linux and mesa.
microtherion 1y ago
Theoretically the vector extensions in a RISC-V could be scaled considerably, it seems to me, especially when combined with the extension proposed here: https://github.com/spacemit-com/riscv-ime-extension-spec https://github.com/spacemit-com/riscv-ime-extension-spec That said, the actual processor cores in this SBC seem to max out at 256 bit registers, which does not seem to be a lot.

I don't like RISC-V unless it has a good GPU

warrenm 1y ago

GPUs are [effectively] irrelevant for many use cases (IoT, embedded, most servers, etc)

_zoltan_ 1y ago
the title says "... AI projects". now, maybe our definitions are different, but you probably want some hardware acceleration.
- jdiaz97 1y ago
  The chip (KY X1) comes with AI acceleration...
- pjmlp 1y ago
  Most likely comming in vector, matrix instructions or NPU like chipsets, not necessarly GPUs.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- dlcarrier 1y ago
  Low-power processors rarely have the AI accelerated instructions in the GPU, instead opting either for dedicated matrix/tensor cores, or as is used in the case, adding the acceleration instructions directly to the CPU core. This results in a higher performance per Watt, but doesn't scale well to higher-power applications.
Joel_Mckay 1y ago
On Raspberry Pi, the GPU is the only thing that makes a responsive GUI or web-browser feasible, and is the primary reason most people use the HDMI LCD screens for games etc. It also took a large effort to bring up a v4l2 kernel driver for the camera modules etc. For example, on the CPU one may pin all cores to stream a USB camera or software decode h264. With the SoC GPU decoding or streaming with the v4l2 interface might take up 30% on one core (mainly to handle the network traffic.) The Raspberry Pi are not the fastest or "best" option (most focus on h264 or MJPEG hardware codecs), but the software/kernel ecosystem provides real value. Also, the foundation doesn't EOL their hardware often, or abandon software support after a single OS release. A cheap RISC-V SBC is great, but ISA versions are generally so fractured (copied the worst ideas of ARM6)... few OS will likely waste resources targeting a platform that will have 5 variants a year, and proprietary drivers. A Standard doesn't even need to be good, but must be consistent to succeed. =3

snvzz 1y ago

Attach your favourite GPU at the PCIe slot.

webdevver 1y ago

they all suck. someone needs to make an open source gpu already, its been way too long.

ekianjo 1y ago
It's probably a series of patent landmines...
- AnthonyMouse 1y ago
  Hardware patents are orthogonal to open source software. If a patent covers the hardware then someone who wants to manufacture the hardware needs to license the patent, but you were never going to get free-as-in-beer hardware anyway, and a hardware patent is independent of whether the hardware is fully documented or has firmware with published source code and a license that allows users to make changes to it.
  - Joel_Mckay 1y ago
    Indeed, most IP used in silicon design are licensed, cost real money, and are under NDA. I wouldn't say "never", but a clone is highly unlikely for another decade or so. =3
    - AnthonyMouse 1y ago
      NDAs in the context of a patent license should legitimately be considered grounds for patent invalidation. Patent literally means "open to public inspection" and the entire premise is that you get a temporary monopoly in exchange for openly documenting how your invention works in the published patent. If there is something about the invention for an NDA to cover it means you left it out of the patent application, which is essentially an admission of wrongdoing. A patent is an alternative to a trade secret. You can't eat your cake and still have it.
      - Joel_Mckay 1y ago

rjsw 1y ago

RISC-V designs typically have an Imagination Technologies GPU, some support for them is in recent versions of Linux and mesa.

microtherion 1y ago

Theoretically the vector extensions in a RISC-V could be scaled considerably, it seems to me, especially when combined with the extension proposed here: https://github.com/spacemit-com/riscv-ime-extension-spec https://github.com/spacemit-com/riscv-ime-extension-spec That said, the actual processor cores in this SBC seem to max out at 256 bit registers, which does not seem to be a lot.