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Germans seem to be rather fond of balcony solar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balcony_solar_power https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balcony_solar_power

mynti 1y ago
Balcony solar is absolute awesome in germany. I get about 30% return on investment per year on my small solar panel. Hard not to do it. I have no idea why it is still a little niche
- destitude 1y ago
  For some reason in the USA there is only a single state that has approved that (Utah).
  - dgacmu 1y ago
    It conflicts with some of the NEC (national electric code) requirements. That all needs to get sorted out.
    - rickydroll 1y ago
      The NEC is also in conflict with homeowners performing simple electrical work, such as replacing switches and outlets.
      - dgacmu 1y ago
        It is. But in this case the conflict is more fundamental - the NEC has no provision for a circuit that has multiple electrical supplies.
        p1mrx 1y ago
        If you have a circuit rated for 15 amps, and plug in 12 amps of solar, then the breaker won't trip until the circuit load exceeds 27 amps, which seems bad.
        adrianmonk 1y ago
        Hmm, if you have an appliance (like a clothes dryer) with a dedicated circuit, it seems like you could solve this by connecting there. If you have the balcony solar device plug into the wall and the appliance plug into the balcony solar device, then you can easily put an additional circuit breaker where it's needed.
      - creaturemachine 1y ago
        Not all homeowners are built for even these simple tasks. I watched someone try to replace a receptacle live, all while wondering why it was arcing and tripping the breaker repeatedly.
        rickydroll 1y ago
        My solution would be using trade schools to run a homeowner electrician's program, teaching folks basic safety, measurement, and mechanics of what they would need do the work safely. A program like this shouldn't take more than a weekend to cover all the issues including a Hands-On lab. A second weekend could be added for ground mounted solar setups. I'd be willing to pay a couple hundred bucks get such a ticket.
        dboreham 1y ago
        Uhhh...how long exactly did you "watch" this?
        creaturemachine 1y ago
        Lol I can't recall, but I think eventually they gave up trying to restore power until it was finished. Perhaps they found a flashlight.
      - dboreham 1y ago
        Did something change? Iirc you can do that sort of job yourself.
brazzy 1y ago
That's just low hanging fruit, the easiest and cheapest way to produce some solar power. But even if fully utilized, that is not going to come anywhere close to meeting most households' needs.
- BobaFloutist 1y ago
  No, but I'm on a TOU plan where electricity costs me more from 4-8pm, and I get direct afternoon sun. If balcony solar could halve the electricity usage of my AC from like 2-6 in the summer, that would be pretty nice.
  - brazzy 1y ago
    Solar and AC are indeed a match made in heaven.
- Mawr 1y ago
  That's an interesting way to word "the most efficient way". A solar setup that meets the energy needs of the entire household is going to have to be oversized, which is a waste. Meanwhile, 100% of the output of balcony solar is almost always going to be fully utilized by the household, meaning 100% of your investment goes into lowering your ever-rising electricity bill. Any time you're exporting to the grid, you're losing out - the rates are never good. Check out the OP's graph. His setup is oversized by about 2x. He's exporting to the grid for most of the day, which is hardly useful, then pulling from the grid after 6pm - the worst of both worlds. Downsizing the solar setup 2x and investing that into batteries would be much better.
  - pyrale 1y ago
    > your ever-rising electricity bill. It's not a surprise that your bill is rising if people consume less during the day because they install balcony solar, but don't meaningfully change their peak consumption, and therefore, don't meaningfully reduce the grid investment required. At least the blog's author has a battery setup which meaningfully moves their peak draw.

mynti 1y ago

Balcony solar is absolute awesome in germany. I get about 30% return on investment per year on my small solar panel. Hard not to do it. I have no idea why it is still a little niche

destitude 1y ago
For some reason in the USA there is only a single state that has approved that (Utah).
- dgacmu 1y ago
  It conflicts with some of the NEC (national electric code) requirements. That all needs to get sorted out.
  - rickydroll 1y ago
    The NEC is also in conflict with homeowners performing simple electrical work, such as replacing switches and outlets.
    - dgacmu 1y ago
      It is. But in this case the conflict is more fundamental - the NEC has no provision for a circuit that has multiple electrical supplies.
      - p1mrx 1y ago
        If you have a circuit rated for 15 amps, and plug in 12 amps of solar, then the breaker won't trip until the circuit load exceeds 27 amps, which seems bad.
        adrianmonk 1y ago
        Hmm, if you have an appliance (like a clothes dryer) with a dedicated circuit, it seems like you could solve this by connecting there. If you have the balcony solar device plug into the wall and the appliance plug into the balcony solar device, then you can easily put an additional circuit breaker where it's needed.
    - creaturemachine 1y ago
      Not all homeowners are built for even these simple tasks. I watched someone try to replace a receptacle live, all while wondering why it was arcing and tripping the breaker repeatedly.
      - rickydroll 1y ago
        My solution would be using trade schools to run a homeowner electrician's program, teaching folks basic safety, measurement, and mechanics of what they would need do the work safely. A program like this shouldn't take more than a weekend to cover all the issues including a Hands-On lab. A second weekend could be added for ground mounted solar setups. I'd be willing to pay a couple hundred bucks get such a ticket.
      - dboreham 1y ago
        Uhhh...how long exactly did you "watch" this?
        creaturemachine 1y ago
        Lol I can't recall, but I think eventually they gave up trying to restore power until it was finished. Perhaps they found a flashlight.
    - dboreham 1y ago
      Did something change? Iirc you can do that sort of job yourself.

brazzy 1y ago

That's just low hanging fruit, the easiest and cheapest way to produce some solar power. But even if fully utilized, that is not going to come anywhere close to meeting most households' needs.

BobaFloutist 1y ago
No, but I'm on a TOU plan where electricity costs me more from 4-8pm, and I get direct afternoon sun. If balcony solar could halve the electricity usage of my AC from like 2-6 in the summer, that would be pretty nice.
- brazzy 1y ago
  Solar and AC are indeed a match made in heaven.
Mawr 1y ago
That's an interesting way to word "the most efficient way". A solar setup that meets the energy needs of the entire household is going to have to be oversized, which is a waste. Meanwhile, 100% of the output of balcony solar is almost always going to be fully utilized by the household, meaning 100% of your investment goes into lowering your ever-rising electricity bill. Any time you're exporting to the grid, you're losing out - the rates are never good. Check out the OP's graph. His setup is oversized by about 2x. He's exporting to the grid for most of the day, which is hardly useful, then pulling from the grid after 6pm - the worst of both worlds. Downsizing the solar setup 2x and investing that into batteries would be much better.
- pyrale 1y ago
  > your ever-rising electricity bill. It's not a surprise that your bill is rising if people consume less during the day because they install balcony solar, but don't meaningfully change their peak consumption, and therefore, don't meaningfully reduce the grid investment required. At least the blog's author has a battery setup which meaningfully moves their peak draw.