5 ms·

I'm surprised. Amish are known for drinking raw milk and making raw dairy, which is all basically pure poison.

by paulnpace 1y ago

bruffen 1y ago
Citation very much needed
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
infecto 1y ago
Definitely not poison. Risk of bacterial infection? Yes. I don’t know the stats on what that risk is though and for all I know perhaps it starts getting closer to zero when it’s your own farm and you are the one handling the whole process. Please note I am not advocating for raw milk, I think it is not a wise decision but I also don’t believe it to be poison.
christophilus 1y ago
It’s the way humans consumed milk forever, though? Every infant consumes raw milk. Every milk-consuming culture on the planet did it until Pasteur. So… I’m not advocating raw milk consumption, but to call it poison is pure ignorance.
- Bender 1y ago
  Every infant consumes raw milk From their mother. Human breast milk is very bitter and I'm sure protein wise very different than cow milk. I doubt scientists have really studied this. Humans are not supposed to be drinking bovine milk. As a visitor to this planet I find it strange. Milk has a lot of lactose and will have interesting affects on adults including but not limited to insulin resistance whereas babies are developing very fast and need simple quick energy.
  - graemep 1y ago
    > Humans are not supposed to be drinking bovine milk. Humans are not "supposed" to eat and drink most of what we do (maybe fruits are an exception). However, we have evolved to consume a lot of things - including, if we have the right genes, milk.
    - Bender 1y ago
      Yeah, no. It's not normal just because people have been doing this for a long time. It has sugar which makes people addicted to it and will argue until they are blue in the face to defend it just like drug addicts will defend their behavior until their last breath. Milk can cause just as much a fatter liver as beer. People can get all their calcium from green leafy vegetables. Raw milk will also contain IGG, IGB, IGA that humans can create on their own. Adding animal immunoglobulins is not well studied. Humans can create their own.
      - Earw0rm 1y ago
        If you're drinking milk in the quantities many guys drink beer, it's going to fatten a lot more than just your liver.
        Bender 1y ago
        If you're drinking milk in the quantities many guys drink beer, it's going to fatten a lot more than just your liver. As many people do and get a fatty liver and ultimately Cirrhosis.
        graemep 1y ago
        According to this meta-analysis dairy reduces the risk of fatty liver: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9992538/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9992538/
    - Earw0rm 1y ago
      Most fruits are highly bred, nutrition wise they're very different from their wild-type predecessors. Many of which are outright inedible, or close to it. That said, we've coevolved with technology of one sort or another (the broadest definition, to include cooking, plant breeding, hunting with weapons, domestication and animal husbandry) ever since we began to master fire, a million years ago give or take.
- HankStallone 1y ago
  It wasn't an issue until dairies started turning into factories to supply growing cities, with cows crowded inside and the manure concentrated in one place which encourages the growth of pathogens, and low-wage employees who weren't necessarily as careful about keeping the cows healthy and manure out of the milk as a traditional "dairy maid" might have been. So the industry had a choice: go back to keeping cows on pasture, which would mean the expense of transporting the milk further into the city from distant farms, or use the new technology of pasteurization to kill all life in the milk, good or bad. As always, industry went with the cheaper option. Which is fine; I wouldn't drink raw milk off the grocery shelf if I thought it came from a large factory dairy. Milk produced that way should be pasteurized. But it wasn't necessary to criminalize doing it the other way. That's just an industry trying to protect itself from competition. If your raw milk comes from cows on pasture, milked by people who make an effort to keep the cows healthy and the milk clean, there's nothing to worry about.
Spooky23 1y ago
The issue with raw milk is that over time it’s much more likely to grow bacteria if there is any interruption in the cold chain. Drinking it on the farm or close to when it’s very fresh isn’t super high risk. My family was in dairy and did it all of the time. Once it’s off the farm, all bets are off.
- graemep 1y ago
  Its very tasty. I used to be able to buy raw milk from a local farm but its largely been killed off by regulation (in the UK). It is highly unlikely to be dangerous enough to have a significant, or even measurable, effect on life expectancies.
  - bluGill 1y ago
    > It is highly unlikely to be dangerous enough to have a significant, or even measurable, effect on life expectancies. Assuming you are a normal healthy adult who gets plenty of nutrition - like someone in the modern world. If you are eating near starvation your immune system won't be as strong. If you are otherwise unhealthy the potential bacteria can overwhelm you...
    - Spooky23 1y ago
      So, do you leave your burritos out for 3 hours so the listeria can grow? Online arguments about anything like this since COVID boil down to “if you don’t die, it’s ok”. An old or sick person can easily die from food poisoning. If you are hearty and hale, you’re going to feel like crap and get stuff like violent diarrhea.
      - bluGill 1y ago
        most milk doesn't even have anything growing in it. If you take care in storage - refrigeration, clean containers, and use it fast you are probably safe. Probably is of course odds and so if everyone did it there would be deaths - but most people would never be sick
xkbarkar 1y ago
One of the few times I have used the downvote button in Hn for a comment. Its not a huge effort to at least try to add some source with such a claim, besides the comment does not even bring anything of value to the discussion.

I'm surprised. Amish are known for drinking raw milk and making raw dairy, which is all basically pure poison.

bruffen 1y ago

Citation very much needed

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

infecto 1y ago

Definitely not poison. Risk of bacterial infection? Yes. I don’t know the stats on what that risk is though and for all I know perhaps it starts getting closer to zero when it’s your own farm and you are the one handling the whole process. Please note I am not advocating for raw milk, I think it is not a wise decision but I also don’t believe it to be poison.

christophilus 1y ago

It’s the way humans consumed milk forever, though? Every infant consumes raw milk. Every milk-consuming culture on the planet did it until Pasteur. So… I’m not advocating raw milk consumption, but to call it poison is pure ignorance.

Bender 1y ago
Every infant consumes raw milk From their mother. Human breast milk is very bitter and I'm sure protein wise very different than cow milk. I doubt scientists have really studied this. Humans are not supposed to be drinking bovine milk. As a visitor to this planet I find it strange. Milk has a lot of lactose and will have interesting affects on adults including but not limited to insulin resistance whereas babies are developing very fast and need simple quick energy.
- graemep 1y ago
  > Humans are not supposed to be drinking bovine milk. Humans are not "supposed" to eat and drink most of what we do (maybe fruits are an exception). However, we have evolved to consume a lot of things - including, if we have the right genes, milk.
  - Bender 1y ago
    Yeah, no. It's not normal just because people have been doing this for a long time. It has sugar which makes people addicted to it and will argue until they are blue in the face to defend it just like drug addicts will defend their behavior until their last breath. Milk can cause just as much a fatter liver as beer. People can get all their calcium from green leafy vegetables. Raw milk will also contain IGG, IGB, IGA that humans can create on their own. Adding animal immunoglobulins is not well studied. Humans can create their own.
    - Earw0rm 1y ago
      If you're drinking milk in the quantities many guys drink beer, it's going to fatten a lot more than just your liver.
      - Bender 1y ago
        If you're drinking milk in the quantities many guys drink beer, it's going to fatten a lot more than just your liver. As many people do and get a fatty liver and ultimately Cirrhosis.
        graemep 1y ago
        According to this meta-analysis dairy reduces the risk of fatty liver: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9992538/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9992538/
  - Earw0rm 1y ago
    Most fruits are highly bred, nutrition wise they're very different from their wild-type predecessors. Many of which are outright inedible, or close to it. That said, we've coevolved with technology of one sort or another (the broadest definition, to include cooking, plant breeding, hunting with weapons, domestication and animal husbandry) ever since we began to master fire, a million years ago give or take.
HankStallone 1y ago
It wasn't an issue until dairies started turning into factories to supply growing cities, with cows crowded inside and the manure concentrated in one place which encourages the growth of pathogens, and low-wage employees who weren't necessarily as careful about keeping the cows healthy and manure out of the milk as a traditional "dairy maid" might have been. So the industry had a choice: go back to keeping cows on pasture, which would mean the expense of transporting the milk further into the city from distant farms, or use the new technology of pasteurization to kill all life in the milk, good or bad. As always, industry went with the cheaper option. Which is fine; I wouldn't drink raw milk off the grocery shelf if I thought it came from a large factory dairy. Milk produced that way should be pasteurized. But it wasn't necessary to criminalize doing it the other way. That's just an industry trying to protect itself from competition. If your raw milk comes from cows on pasture, milked by people who make an effort to keep the cows healthy and the milk clean, there's nothing to worry about.

Spooky23 1y ago

The issue with raw milk is that over time it’s much more likely to grow bacteria if there is any interruption in the cold chain. Drinking it on the farm or close to when it’s very fresh isn’t super high risk. My family was in dairy and did it all of the time. Once it’s off the farm, all bets are off.

graemep 1y ago
Its very tasty. I used to be able to buy raw milk from a local farm but its largely been killed off by regulation (in the UK). It is highly unlikely to be dangerous enough to have a significant, or even measurable, effect on life expectancies.
- bluGill 1y ago
  > It is highly unlikely to be dangerous enough to have a significant, or even measurable, effect on life expectancies. Assuming you are a normal healthy adult who gets plenty of nutrition - like someone in the modern world. If you are eating near starvation your immune system won't be as strong. If you are otherwise unhealthy the potential bacteria can overwhelm you...
  - Spooky23 1y ago
    So, do you leave your burritos out for 3 hours so the listeria can grow? Online arguments about anything like this since COVID boil down to “if you don’t die, it’s ok”. An old or sick person can easily die from food poisoning. If you are hearty and hale, you’re going to feel like crap and get stuff like violent diarrhea.
    - bluGill 1y ago
      most milk doesn't even have anything growing in it. If you take care in storage - refrigeration, clean containers, and use it fast you are probably safe. Probably is of course odds and so if everyone did it there would be deaths - but most people would never be sick

xkbarkar 1y ago

One of the few times I have used the downvote button in Hn for a comment. Its not a huge effort to at least try to add some source with such a claim, besides the comment does not even bring anything of value to the discussion.