4 ms·

No need for scare quotes, US customary units are a thing. A US customary cup is, at least, quite standard at 8 fluid ounces. This is more standardized than th

No need for scare quotes, US customary units are a thing. A US customary cup is, at least, quite standard at 8 fluid ounces. This is more standardized than the unit of measure used in British recipes and whatnot. The issues surrounding volumetric measurements for dry goods is an entirely separate matter. 240 mL of apricots is just as useless as 1 cup of apricots.

flyinghamster 1y ago
Keep in mind it goes further than that. US customary volume units don't match up with British ones. One British gallon is about 4.5 liters, where a US gallon is about 3.8. Quarts, pints, and cups follow, but fluid ounces are another thing. A US gallon is divided into 128 fl. oz., while a British gallon is 160. This results in a US fluid ounce of about 29.6 ml, vs. 28.4 ml for the British one, and also affects teaspoons and tablespoons.
- kruador 1y ago
  Strictly, UK teaspoons are 5 ml and tablespoons 15 ml. The metric tablespoons already used in Europe were probably close enough to half an Imperial fluid ounce for it not to matter for most purposes. My kids' baby bottles were labelled with measurements in metric (30 ml increments) and in both US and Imperial fluid ounces. The cans of formula were supplied with scoops for measuring the powder, which were also somewhere close to 2 tablespoons/one fluid ounce (use one scoop per 30 ml of water). There are dire warnings about not varying the concentration from the recommended amount, but I assume that it's not really that precise within 1-2% - more about not varying by 10-20%. My kids seem to have survived, anyway.
  - inferiorhuman 1y ago
    Strictly, UK teaspoons are 5 ml and tablespoons 15 ml. Well there's a rabbit hole I wasn't expecting to go down. I knew that Australian tablespoons (20 mL) were significantly different from US tablespoons. I didn't know that UK tablespoons were a whole different beast (14.2 mL), nor did I realize US tablespoons aren't quite 15 mL, and in fact my tablespoon measures are marked 15 mL. 15 mL is handily 1/16 of a US cup so it's easy enough to translate to 1/4 cup (4 tsbsp) and 1/3 cup (5 tbsp). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablespoon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablespoon
closewith 1y ago
> This is more standardised than the unit of measure used in British recipes and whatnot. How so?
- inferiorhuman 1y ago
  There's no such thing as an imperial cup ergo the cup is not a standardized measurement. Within US customary units the cup is defined.
  - lmm 1y ago
    > There's no such thing as an imperial cup ergo the cup is not a standardized measurement. Which is probably part of why British recipes never say cup.
  - Fluorescence 1y ago
    No "cups" in old British recipes I've made but there will be measures you have to look up like a "gill". Old family recipes would just say things like "add flour" and that amount was taught face-to-face and hands-on where you added enough till it looked "right" because onions and eggs etc. were not a uniform size.
    - rkomorn 1y ago
      This reminds me of a boxed item I bought ages ago where the instructions were basically: cook to desired doneness, season as desired. Also reminds me of a coworker in a restaurant in Palo Alto who, when I asked him the recipe for a dressing I needed to make, told me "ginger juice, lemon, and just make it good". It turns out there were a few other ingredients.
    - inferiorhuman 1y ago
      No "cups" in old British recipes I've made but there will be measures you have to look up like a "gill". Counterpoint: https://oldbritishrecipes.com/collection-of-old-biscuit-recipes https://oldbritishrecipes.com/collection-of-old-biscuit-reci... And yeah, depending on how far back you're going or what sources you're using, there will be a lot of vaguely defined quantities. Glen of Glen and Friends on Youtube regularly cooks vintage recipes and gets into how things evolved over time. Most of his old cookbooks are either Canadian or American but from time to time he cooks from UK cookbooks.
ndsipa_pomu 1y ago
> No need for scare quotes, US customary units are a thing. I understand that other countries (probably North American ones) use the same system too, so thought I was clarifying, not scaring. > A US customary cup is, at least, quite standard at 8 fluid ounces. This is more standardized than the unit of measure used in British recipes and whatnot I disagree as British (or non-U.S.) recipes will use a combination of metric and/or imperial sizes depending on their age. Weighing something in grammes is easy and standardised (for most of the Earth's surface at least). Admittedly, imperial measurements can be problematic as a British pint is different to a U.S. pint and "fluid ounces" also have different definitions. > 240 mL of apricots is just as useless as 1 cup of apricots I agree - any sane recipe will use something like "5 apricots". I've never seen mL used for measuring whole fruit - grammes would be appropriate for mashed fruit though.
- inferiorhuman 1y ago
  I disagree as British (or non-U.S.) recipes will use a combination of metric and/or imperial sizes depending on their age. Right, but a cup is not an imperial unit of measure and metric cups didn't really catch on in the UK. So if you're looking at an older British recipe that references cups, good luck. any sane recipe will use something like "5 apricots". This is also a bad idea as common sizes for certain things change over time (e.g. some of the comments here talking about eggs). I don't eat too many apricots, but apples here can vary in size wildly even of the same variety.
  - ndsipa_pomu 1y ago
    Can't recall seeing any British recipe that uses cups so the difference between imperial and metric cups is irrelevant to us. At least with something like "5 apricots", it should be obvious to the cook if they've got really small, big or varying sizes. Meanwhile, the "cup" measurement can vary depending on the order of which you put the apricots into the cup - do you put the smallest fruit in first, or the biggest?
    - inferiorhuman 1y ago

flyinghamster 1y ago

Keep in mind it goes further than that. US customary volume units don't match up with British ones. One British gallon is about 4.5 liters, where a US gallon is about 3.8. Quarts, pints, and cups follow, but fluid ounces are another thing. A US gallon is divided into 128 fl. oz., while a British gallon is 160. This results in a US fluid ounce of about 29.6 ml, vs. 28.4 ml for the British one, and also affects teaspoons and tablespoons.

kruador 1y ago
Strictly, UK teaspoons are 5 ml and tablespoons 15 ml. The metric tablespoons already used in Europe were probably close enough to half an Imperial fluid ounce for it not to matter for most purposes. My kids' baby bottles were labelled with measurements in metric (30 ml increments) and in both US and Imperial fluid ounces. The cans of formula were supplied with scoops for measuring the powder, which were also somewhere close to 2 tablespoons/one fluid ounce (use one scoop per 30 ml of water). There are dire warnings about not varying the concentration from the recommended amount, but I assume that it's not really that precise within 1-2% - more about not varying by 10-20%. My kids seem to have survived, anyway.
- inferiorhuman 1y ago
  Strictly, UK teaspoons are 5 ml and tablespoons 15 ml. Well there's a rabbit hole I wasn't expecting to go down. I knew that Australian tablespoons (20 mL) were significantly different from US tablespoons. I didn't know that UK tablespoons were a whole different beast (14.2 mL), nor did I realize US tablespoons aren't quite 15 mL, and in fact my tablespoon measures are marked 15 mL. 15 mL is handily 1/16 of a US cup so it's easy enough to translate to 1/4 cup (4 tsbsp) and 1/3 cup (5 tbsp). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablespoon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablespoon

closewith 1y ago

> This is more standardised than the unit of measure used in British recipes and whatnot. How so?

inferiorhuman 1y ago
There's no such thing as an imperial cup ergo the cup is not a standardized measurement. Within US customary units the cup is defined.
- lmm 1y ago
  > There's no such thing as an imperial cup ergo the cup is not a standardized measurement. Which is probably part of why British recipes never say cup.
- Fluorescence 1y ago
  No "cups" in old British recipes I've made but there will be measures you have to look up like a "gill". Old family recipes would just say things like "add flour" and that amount was taught face-to-face and hands-on where you added enough till it looked "right" because onions and eggs etc. were not a uniform size.
  - rkomorn 1y ago
    This reminds me of a boxed item I bought ages ago where the instructions were basically: cook to desired doneness, season as desired. Also reminds me of a coworker in a restaurant in Palo Alto who, when I asked him the recipe for a dressing I needed to make, told me "ginger juice, lemon, and just make it good". It turns out there were a few other ingredients.
  - inferiorhuman 1y ago
    No "cups" in old British recipes I've made but there will be measures you have to look up like a "gill". Counterpoint: https://oldbritishrecipes.com/collection-of-old-biscuit-recipes https://oldbritishrecipes.com/collection-of-old-biscuit-reci... And yeah, depending on how far back you're going or what sources you're using, there will be a lot of vaguely defined quantities. Glen of Glen and Friends on Youtube regularly cooks vintage recipes and gets into how things evolved over time. Most of his old cookbooks are either Canadian or American but from time to time he cooks from UK cookbooks.

ndsipa_pomu 1y ago

> No need for scare quotes, US customary units are a thing. I understand that other countries (probably North American ones) use the same system too, so thought I was clarifying, not scaring. > A US customary cup is, at least, quite standard at 8 fluid ounces. This is more standardized than the unit of measure used in British recipes and whatnot I disagree as British (or non-U.S.) recipes will use a combination of metric and/or imperial sizes depending on their age. Weighing something in grammes is easy and standardised (for most of the Earth's surface at least). Admittedly, imperial measurements can be problematic as a British pint is different to a U.S. pint and "fluid ounces" also have different definitions. > 240 mL of apricots is just as useless as 1 cup of apricots I agree - any sane recipe will use something like "5 apricots". I've never seen mL used for measuring whole fruit - grammes would be appropriate for mashed fruit though.

inferiorhuman 1y ago
I disagree as British (or non-U.S.) recipes will use a combination of metric and/or imperial sizes depending on their age. Right, but a cup is not an imperial unit of measure and metric cups didn't really catch on in the UK. So if you're looking at an older British recipe that references cups, good luck. any sane recipe will use something like "5 apricots". This is also a bad idea as common sizes for certain things change over time (e.g. some of the comments here talking about eggs). I don't eat too many apricots, but apples here can vary in size wildly even of the same variety.
- ndsipa_pomu 1y ago
  Can't recall seeing any British recipe that uses cups so the difference between imperial and metric cups is irrelevant to us. At least with something like "5 apricots", it should be obvious to the cook if they've got really small, big or varying sizes. Meanwhile, the "cup" measurement can vary depending on the order of which you put the apricots into the cup - do you put the smallest fruit in first, or the biggest?
  - inferiorhuman 1y ago