7 ms·

Lula: Brazilian Democracy and Sovereignty Are Non-Negotiable

21 points by marcodiego 1y ago

slater 1y ago
https://archive.ph/jPSMw https://archive.ph/jPSMw
slwvx 1y ago
Nice!
0xy 1y ago
The Brazilian Supreme Court brought its own case and decided upon on it in a way that banana republics could only dream of doing.
- 0xy 1y ago
  The institution itself is known to be corrupt, unwinding major corruption convictions and notably freeing the corrupt president. https://www.ft.com/content/c0d84b0f-1f0b-40d0-8ebe-8bf6c60b4fbe https://www.ft.com/content/c0d84b0f-1f0b-40d0-8ebe-8bf6c60b4...
  - matheusmoreira 1y ago
    The brazilian supreme court is such a kangaroo court, they were brazen enough to set up a "fake news" inquisition where they were victims, investigators, prosecutors, judges and executioners in a case of wildcard crimes against themselves covering the whole brazilian territory. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39966382 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39966382 That is the state we find ourselves in. As far as I know, that "fake news" inquisition is still ongoing.
- sonicggg 1y ago
  Kangaroo court
- clydethefrog 1y ago
  Could you explain why? I have been following the evidence that was shared in the trial the last years. The summary is clear [0] - there is plenty of evidence Bolsanaro and several higher military members tried to stage a coup. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Brazilian_coup_plot https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Brazilian_coup_plot
  - matheusmoreira 1y ago
    "Tried" is too strong a word. A military coup is when the military deploys its forces and deposes the government. A military coup attempt consists of the military's forces being defeated while trying to seize power. I'm sure they planned a military coup. I don't think they actually tried it. An attempt actually has a chance of succeeding. Bolsonaro was in the USA while his fans were protesting in Brasília. When the military finally showed up, it was to arrest them.
    - metalman 1y ago
      Bolsenaro is ex military, apointed his army buddys to positions in government, and evidence shows that the coup planning was with a large network of officers, useing military resiurces to plan there takeover. Bolsenaro was most definitly planning a coup with all of the top military comanders, he had zero reason to be working with. That he could not move faster than those opossing him, is not evidence in his favor. Getting caught at that point leaves no room to say "nice try, go home". Knowing some ex army officers who were let off in a coup atempt, the offer was given to junior officers as "lead or gold", ie : get out of politicd,stay out of politics, and perhaps seek oportunity abroad, but the ones at the top know there is no way to leave them running around. This is exactly what took place in Brazil.
      - matheusmoreira 1y ago
        We're not in disagreement here. It looks like he simply failed to secure the support of all branches of the military and decided against going through with it. That's why I think it's silly to claim there was a coup attempt. At the end of the day, a coup was not actually attempted. They could have charged him with something more accurate like conspiracy. Conspiring to do something is obviously a much lesser crime than actually doing it. They specifically chose to call it a coup for political reasons. Giving up was pretty stupid in hindsight, he's being judged as though he had actually gone through with it. He might as well have tried. Oh well. Bolsonaro's fate is much less important than the fate of the thousands of people who went to jail in January 8th. I don't believe there was a coup attempt there either. They asked the military to do it and the military did nothing. They can be charged with vandalism, incitation, whatever. They can't be charged with an actual coup attempt. That requires actually picking up weapons and trying to depose the government by force. Asking the military to do it on their behalf doesn't amount to a coup attempt. For the record: I don't think Bolsonaro is wrong from a purely moral standpoint. My position is that the supreme court itself enacted a silent coup years before these events unfolded. That makes any manuever from Bolsonaro a counter-strike against the real tyrants. Especially since these same tyrants nullified the corruption case against the current president and violated the constitution on a daily basis in order to get him elected in 2022. Now that Bolsonaro's been defeated, the only hope for this country lies in Trump's sanctions as well as diplomatic and economic pressure.
- ZeroGravitas 1y ago
  Banana Republic is an interesting term to use: > In the early 20th century, the United Fruit Company, a multinational corporation, was instrumental in the creation of the banana republic phenomenon.[6][7] Together with other American corporations, such as the Cuyamel Fruit Company, and leveraging the power of the U.S. government, the corporations created the political, economic, and social circumstances that led to a coup of the locally elected democratic government that established banana republics in Central American countries such as Honduras and Guatemala;[8] No official apology has ever been done by any banana company or the U.S. with only the C.I.A. backed dictator of Guatemala apologizing in 2011.[9] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic
- matheusmoreira 1y ago
  This is just the new normal. They have been doing it since at least 2019 when they started the "fake news" inquisition where they were victims, investigators, prosecutors, judges and executioners in a case involving wildcard crimes against themselves covering the entire brazilian territory. A literal kangaroo court. That's not enough, they went even further. They perpetrated a silent coup. These unelected judge-kings have usurped so much power they have essentially taken over the legislative and executive branches of government. They openly legislate despite not a single brazilian having voted for them. They are so brazen as to raise taxes. Politicians can impeach them but they don't dare to do it because they are the ones who judge politicians for corruption.
matheusmoreira 1y ago
He speaks of democracy but rules through the unelected supreme court. Every time his party is defeated democratically, they bring it to the supreme court and they force it through. Our representatives blocked his attempt to raise taxes and the supreme court raised them on his behalf. The only reason they don't dissolve these expensive institutions is they let him pretend that this country is a democracy. He speaks of sovereignty despite being a pro-crime socialist and globalist. It was under his party's 20+ year rule that drug trafficking organized crime gangs came to dominate over a quarter of our territory, create a parallel state, pull off a stealth secession and infiltrate society and even the official government at every level. He makes a show of not submitting to the USA and then turns around and kowtows to China. He openly disdains the military, nationalism and the very concept of arming and defending oneself, then he turns around and starts speaking of sovereignty as if he had nuclear weapons to deter adversaries with. The sheer dishonesty, the sheer number of contradictions in this delusional communist's politics is enough to test my sanity. I feel like I'm being gaslit.
- dakial1 1y ago
  >Every time his party is defeated democratically, they bring it to the supreme court and they force it through. What? When did this happen? He won democratically, through the vote, all the times he became president. This seems some wild MAGA-like conspiracy stuff.
  - matheusmoreira 1y ago
    > What? When did this happen? I explained in the comment. I wasn't referring to elections, I was referring to his presidential acts and political maneuvers. Our other elected representatives have blocked his plans many times but he always forces them through via the supreme court. Consider this relatively recent episode: his minister tried to raise taxes on all financial operations and was blocked by other elected politicians. What did his party do? They brought the issue to the supreme court which promptly "validated" the tax hike. They even applied it retroactively which is unconstitutional. He uses the supreme court to bypass our elected representatives when they block him, thereby ruling through it. Not a single brazilian voted for those judges. This is not democratic. > He won democratically, through the vote, all the times he became president. Plenty of doubt can be raised regarding the trustworthiness of elections conducted via our voting machines. Especially since these exact same judges also control the electoral courts and through them the electoral process. They have rejected two proposals by our elected representatives to add a paper trail to the system for totally unconvincing reasons such as "it's too hard to implement in a timely manner". I wasn't talking about that though. Not in this case. > This seems some wild MAGA-like conspiracy stuff. These are my honest opinions on what's going on in my country. I really don't care if they sound "conspiratorial", my only concern is that they are coherent and logical. My world view can change if I'm presented with convincing evidence. Every single thread about brazilian politics, I post my views, secretly hoping that someone will show me that I'm wrong and that things are not as bad as I think they are. Nobody's done it yet.

21 points by marcodiego 1y ago

slater 1y ago

https://archive.ph/jPSMw https://archive.ph/jPSMw

slwvx 1y ago

Nice!

0xy 1y ago

The Brazilian Supreme Court brought its own case and decided upon on it in a way that banana republics could only dream of doing.

0xy 1y ago
The institution itself is known to be corrupt, unwinding major corruption convictions and notably freeing the corrupt president. https://www.ft.com/content/c0d84b0f-1f0b-40d0-8ebe-8bf6c60b4fbe https://www.ft.com/content/c0d84b0f-1f0b-40d0-8ebe-8bf6c60b4...
- matheusmoreira 1y ago
  The brazilian supreme court is such a kangaroo court, they were brazen enough to set up a "fake news" inquisition where they were victims, investigators, prosecutors, judges and executioners in a case of wildcard crimes against themselves covering the whole brazilian territory. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39966382 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39966382 That is the state we find ourselves in. As far as I know, that "fake news" inquisition is still ongoing.
sonicggg 1y ago
Kangaroo court
clydethefrog 1y ago
Could you explain why? I have been following the evidence that was shared in the trial the last years. The summary is clear [0] - there is plenty of evidence Bolsanaro and several higher military members tried to stage a coup. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Brazilian_coup_plot https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Brazilian_coup_plot
- matheusmoreira 1y ago
  "Tried" is too strong a word. A military coup is when the military deploys its forces and deposes the government. A military coup attempt consists of the military's forces being defeated while trying to seize power. I'm sure they planned a military coup. I don't think they actually tried it. An attempt actually has a chance of succeeding. Bolsonaro was in the USA while his fans were protesting in Brasília. When the military finally showed up, it was to arrest them.
  - metalman 1y ago
    Bolsenaro is ex military, apointed his army buddys to positions in government, and evidence shows that the coup planning was with a large network of officers, useing military resiurces to plan there takeover. Bolsenaro was most definitly planning a coup with all of the top military comanders, he had zero reason to be working with. That he could not move faster than those opossing him, is not evidence in his favor. Getting caught at that point leaves no room to say "nice try, go home". Knowing some ex army officers who were let off in a coup atempt, the offer was given to junior officers as "lead or gold", ie : get out of politicd,stay out of politics, and perhaps seek oportunity abroad, but the ones at the top know there is no way to leave them running around. This is exactly what took place in Brazil.
    - matheusmoreira 1y ago
      We're not in disagreement here. It looks like he simply failed to secure the support of all branches of the military and decided against going through with it. That's why I think it's silly to claim there was a coup attempt. At the end of the day, a coup was not actually attempted. They could have charged him with something more accurate like conspiracy. Conspiring to do something is obviously a much lesser crime than actually doing it. They specifically chose to call it a coup for political reasons. Giving up was pretty stupid in hindsight, he's being judged as though he had actually gone through with it. He might as well have tried. Oh well. Bolsonaro's fate is much less important than the fate of the thousands of people who went to jail in January 8th. I don't believe there was a coup attempt there either. They asked the military to do it and the military did nothing. They can be charged with vandalism, incitation, whatever. They can't be charged with an actual coup attempt. That requires actually picking up weapons and trying to depose the government by force. Asking the military to do it on their behalf doesn't amount to a coup attempt. For the record: I don't think Bolsonaro is wrong from a purely moral standpoint. My position is that the supreme court itself enacted a silent coup years before these events unfolded. That makes any manuever from Bolsonaro a counter-strike against the real tyrants. Especially since these same tyrants nullified the corruption case against the current president and violated the constitution on a daily basis in order to get him elected in 2022. Now that Bolsonaro's been defeated, the only hope for this country lies in Trump's sanctions as well as diplomatic and economic pressure.
ZeroGravitas 1y ago
Banana Republic is an interesting term to use: > In the early 20th century, the United Fruit Company, a multinational corporation, was instrumental in the creation of the banana republic phenomenon.[6][7] Together with other American corporations, such as the Cuyamel Fruit Company, and leveraging the power of the U.S. government, the corporations created the political, economic, and social circumstances that led to a coup of the locally elected democratic government that established banana republics in Central American countries such as Honduras and Guatemala;[8] No official apology has ever been done by any banana company or the U.S. with only the C.I.A. backed dictator of Guatemala apologizing in 2011.[9] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic
matheusmoreira 1y ago
This is just the new normal. They have been doing it since at least 2019 when they started the "fake news" inquisition where they were victims, investigators, prosecutors, judges and executioners in a case involving wildcard crimes against themselves covering the entire brazilian territory. A literal kangaroo court. That's not enough, they went even further. They perpetrated a silent coup. These unelected judge-kings have usurped so much power they have essentially taken over the legislative and executive branches of government. They openly legislate despite not a single brazilian having voted for them. They are so brazen as to raise taxes. Politicians can impeach them but they don't dare to do it because they are the ones who judge politicians for corruption.

matheusmoreira 1y ago

He speaks of democracy but rules through the unelected supreme court. Every time his party is defeated democratically, they bring it to the supreme court and they force it through. Our representatives blocked his attempt to raise taxes and the supreme court raised them on his behalf. The only reason they don't dissolve these expensive institutions is they let him pretend that this country is a democracy. He speaks of sovereignty despite being a pro-crime socialist and globalist. It was under his party's 20+ year rule that drug trafficking organized crime gangs came to dominate over a quarter of our territory, create a parallel state, pull off a stealth secession and infiltrate society and even the official government at every level. He makes a show of not submitting to the USA and then turns around and kowtows to China. He openly disdains the military, nationalism and the very concept of arming and defending oneself, then he turns around and starts speaking of sovereignty as if he had nuclear weapons to deter adversaries with. The sheer dishonesty, the sheer number of contradictions in this delusional communist's politics is enough to test my sanity. I feel like I'm being gaslit.

dakial1 1y ago
>Every time his party is defeated democratically, they bring it to the supreme court and they force it through. What? When did this happen? He won democratically, through the vote, all the times he became president. This seems some wild MAGA-like conspiracy stuff.
- matheusmoreira 1y ago
  > What? When did this happen? I explained in the comment. I wasn't referring to elections, I was referring to his presidential acts and political maneuvers. Our other elected representatives have blocked his plans many times but he always forces them through via the supreme court. Consider this relatively recent episode: his minister tried to raise taxes on all financial operations and was blocked by other elected politicians. What did his party do? They brought the issue to the supreme court which promptly "validated" the tax hike. They even applied it retroactively which is unconstitutional. He uses the supreme court to bypass our elected representatives when they block him, thereby ruling through it. Not a single brazilian voted for those judges. This is not democratic. > He won democratically, through the vote, all the times he became president. Plenty of doubt can be raised regarding the trustworthiness of elections conducted via our voting machines. Especially since these exact same judges also control the electoral courts and through them the electoral process. They have rejected two proposals by our elected representatives to add a paper trail to the system for totally unconvincing reasons such as "it's too hard to implement in a timely manner". I wasn't talking about that though. Not in this case. > This seems some wild MAGA-like conspiracy stuff. These are my honest opinions on what's going on in my country. I really don't care if they sound "conspiratorial", my only concern is that they are coherent and logical. My world view can change if I'm presented with convincing evidence. Every single thread about brazilian politics, I post my views, secretly hoping that someone will show me that I'm wrong and that things are not as bad as I think they are. Nobody's done it yet.