4 ms·

Read the beginning of false claim #28. This paper is such a joke lol. The authors agree with the "false statement" and then propose their own solution. I can't

Read the beginning of false claim #28. This paper is such a joke lol. The authors agree with the "false statement" and then propose their own solution. I can't believe this is on an "edu" website.

aaronbrethorst 1y ago
False Claim 28: Wind energy is unreliable As with solar energy, complete reliance on wind energy would pose intermittency challenges. However, wind, solar, and storage together can provide the majority of the country’s electricity without compromising reliability The false claim they're rebutting is that because wind is unreliable, we shouldn't deploy wind turbines for clean energy generation. They stipulate that it is a great part of a package of renewables.
- vlovich123 1y ago
  Yes, but there’s no evidence that storage can or will be a cost effective strategy to let solar and wind handle base load power. That’s why China is betting on nuclear hard instead of storage to backfill what solar and wind cannot deliver.
  - Reason077 1y ago
    Sure, but our grids have plenty of existing natural gas generation, hydro generation and storage, etc. These aren't going to disappear just because we're building wind and solar. If you can go from a grid that burns natural gas 100% of the time to only 20% of the time, you've still cut carbon emissions dramatically. In the mean time, storage technologies will improve, nuclear might become cheaper, transmission grids will become better and more interconnected, etc. The fact that wind alone can't get us to a 100% renewable grid isn't a valid argument to not build wind power. Solar and wind are the cheapest and fastest technologies available today to expand energy production while reducing carbon emissions.
    - vlovich123 1y ago
      I wasn’t making that claim. I was just highlighting how renewables by themselves are insufficient for base load power. Renewables often help with peak load and that is valuable, but base load is storage+renewables, nuclear, hydro, or fossil fuels.
  - mikeyouse 1y ago
    China isn’t doing one single thing… they’re rolling out more wind and solar than anywhere else on earth. They’re investing heavily in nuclear. They’re building massive banks of batteries and new hydro dams to store power. Pretending like they don’t have faith in renewables being a massive part of their future energy generation is just silly. They have multiple GWH+ battery projects under construction right now. https://www.pv-magazine.com/2025/07/21/china-switches-on-its-largest-standalone-battery-storage-project/ https://www.pv-magazine.com/2025/07/21/china-switches-on-its... https://www.energy-storage.news/powerchina-begins-construction-of-worlds-largest-generation-side-battery-storage-project/ https://www.energy-storage.news/powerchina-begins-constructi...
    - Reason077 1y ago
      Yep. China installed 256 GW of new solar capacity in the first 6 months of 2025 (out of 380 GW globally). To further put this into perspective, the United States had 239 GW of total installed PV capacity at the end of 2024. China is now adding more solar every 6 months than the US has installed ever.
  - defrost 1y ago
    > That’s why China is betting on nuclear hard .. Relative to the US, sure, call it 'hard' if you like. Relative to China's total energy demand and current supply build out, coal still dominates (albeit near peak use in China and predicted to fall within a decade), renewables are where the bulk of growth and new generation is at, nuclear following a post Fukishima 'stumble' is planned to expand over the next decade, by 2035, to account for 10% of electricity generation (up from sub 2% now). 10%, perhaps even 15%, of total generation leaves a lot of slack that china plans to address with solar, wind, storage, HVDC transmission, etc.
- Reason077 1y ago
  Yes, the actual claim they are debunking is the subheading: "Because of the wind’s intermittency and high variability, they do next to nothing to reduce the need for other fuels." I agree this one is poorly worded.
sealeck 1y ago
If you read the claim they are addressing, it is specifically that > Because of the wind’s intermittency and high variability, they do next to nothing to reduce the need for other fuels. They then (correctly) point out that while wind on its own obviously doesn't work, it is still valuable as part of a grid system (with other sources of power). Note that what they say (i.e. "as with solar energy, complete reliance on wind energy would pose intermittency challenges") is not agreeing with the statement, as the statement is that it does "next to nothing" and their argument is that it does a lot, when combined with other power sources.
scblock 1y ago
Wind is extremely reliable. And it is relatively predictable, particularly on a short time scale. What it is is intermittent, which is a very different thing.
- danpalmer 1y ago
  And by planning the locations well it's also less intermittent than one might expect, or you can build wind farms in locations with opposing wind trends so that you've always got something running.
  - IMTDb 1y ago
    How far away from each other are those opposing wind trends ? It’s one of the issues with the global grid in europe; if you look at weather patterns; all of western europe often tends to be contained in the same cell. And assuming you can find those opposing wind trends not too distant from each other how reliable is that (anti)correlation.
- bluGill 1y ago
  That planning means you can ask factories to plan their energy use around high wind power times.

Read the beginning of false claim #28. This paper is such a joke lol. The authors agree with the "false statement" and then propose their own solution. I can't believe this is on an "edu" website.

aaronbrethorst 1y ago

False Claim 28: Wind energy is unreliable As with solar energy, complete reliance on wind energy would pose intermittency challenges. However, wind, solar, and storage together can provide the majority of the country’s electricity without compromising reliability The false claim they're rebutting is that because wind is unreliable, we shouldn't deploy wind turbines for clean energy generation. They stipulate that it is a great part of a package of renewables.

vlovich123 1y ago
Yes, but there’s no evidence that storage can or will be a cost effective strategy to let solar and wind handle base load power. That’s why China is betting on nuclear hard instead of storage to backfill what solar and wind cannot deliver.
- Reason077 1y ago
  Sure, but our grids have plenty of existing natural gas generation, hydro generation and storage, etc. These aren't going to disappear just because we're building wind and solar. If you can go from a grid that burns natural gas 100% of the time to only 20% of the time, you've still cut carbon emissions dramatically. In the mean time, storage technologies will improve, nuclear might become cheaper, transmission grids will become better and more interconnected, etc. The fact that wind alone can't get us to a 100% renewable grid isn't a valid argument to not build wind power. Solar and wind are the cheapest and fastest technologies available today to expand energy production while reducing carbon emissions.
  - vlovich123 1y ago
    I wasn’t making that claim. I was just highlighting how renewables by themselves are insufficient for base load power. Renewables often help with peak load and that is valuable, but base load is storage+renewables, nuclear, hydro, or fossil fuels.
- mikeyouse 1y ago
  China isn’t doing one single thing… they’re rolling out more wind and solar than anywhere else on earth. They’re investing heavily in nuclear. They’re building massive banks of batteries and new hydro dams to store power. Pretending like they don’t have faith in renewables being a massive part of their future energy generation is just silly. They have multiple GWH+ battery projects under construction right now. https://www.pv-magazine.com/2025/07/21/china-switches-on-its-largest-standalone-battery-storage-project/ https://www.pv-magazine.com/2025/07/21/china-switches-on-its... https://www.energy-storage.news/powerchina-begins-construction-of-worlds-largest-generation-side-battery-storage-project/ https://www.energy-storage.news/powerchina-begins-constructi...
  - Reason077 1y ago
    Yep. China installed 256 GW of new solar capacity in the first 6 months of 2025 (out of 380 GW globally). To further put this into perspective, the United States had 239 GW of total installed PV capacity at the end of 2024. China is now adding more solar every 6 months than the US has installed ever.
- defrost 1y ago
  > That’s why China is betting on nuclear hard .. Relative to the US, sure, call it 'hard' if you like. Relative to China's total energy demand and current supply build out, coal still dominates (albeit near peak use in China and predicted to fall within a decade), renewables are where the bulk of growth and new generation is at, nuclear following a post Fukishima 'stumble' is planned to expand over the next decade, by 2035, to account for 10% of electricity generation (up from sub 2% now). 10%, perhaps even 15%, of total generation leaves a lot of slack that china plans to address with solar, wind, storage, HVDC transmission, etc.
Reason077 1y ago
Yes, the actual claim they are debunking is the subheading: "Because of the wind’s intermittency and high variability, they do next to nothing to reduce the need for other fuels." I agree this one is poorly worded.

sealeck 1y ago

If you read the claim they are addressing, it is specifically that > Because of the wind’s intermittency and high variability, they do next to nothing to reduce the need for other fuels. They then (correctly) point out that while wind on its own obviously doesn't work, it is still valuable as part of a grid system (with other sources of power). Note that what they say (i.e. "as with solar energy, complete reliance on wind energy would pose intermittency challenges") is not agreeing with the statement, as the statement is that it does "next to nothing" and their argument is that it does a lot, when combined with other power sources.

scblock 1y ago

Wind is extremely reliable. And it is relatively predictable, particularly on a short time scale. What it is is intermittent, which is a very different thing.

danpalmer 1y ago
And by planning the locations well it's also less intermittent than one might expect, or you can build wind farms in locations with opposing wind trends so that you've always got something running.
- IMTDb 1y ago
  How far away from each other are those opposing wind trends ? It’s one of the issues with the global grid in europe; if you look at weather patterns; all of western europe often tends to be contained in the same cell. And assuming you can find those opposing wind trends not too distant from each other how reliable is that (anti)correlation.
bluGill 1y ago
That planning means you can ask factories to plan their energy use around high wind power times.