11 ms·

You're Young. I'm 18. So what?

149 points by jarederondu 14y ago

qq66 14y ago
Pretty cool both that you are accomplishing so much at your age, and also pretty cool that the industry is embracing that (try doing that in the biotech or financial services industry). Good luck!
abdurraheem 14y ago
Fellow Baltimorean! It's not so boring... so long as you're over 21.
thesash 14y ago
That's one hell of a story of hustle. What you've discovered, I think, is (paraphrasing Steve Jobs [1]) that the world around you was built by people just like you. You've seen behind the curtain, and there's no wizard, only some dude who's no smarter than you are figuring it out as he goes along. Kudos to you for discovering this at such a young age, I didn't get it 'till my twenties. My advice to you: put the last section of your article out of your mind. You've achieved some pretty amazing things, focus on that, and keep shipping. Comparing yourself to others is a path to insanity, there will always be someone who has accomplished more, done it faster, made it look easier, etc. And one more thing-- you're never too young to do anything, but keep in mind that with age comes experience. There are people out there (like the ones you mentioned), who have been where you are before, have faced similar challenges, and overcome them. No matter how early you start, you'll always have more experience the older you get, so continue to seek out the advice and mentorship of those who have walked the path before you. [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UvEiSa6_EPA http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=U...
tatsuke95 14y ago
>"Age is just a number." Age is a proxy for wisdom. The longer you are on this earth, the more wisdom and experience you will acquire. That has value. But that's not to say that age alone should be a dealbreaker or barrier to success, as the author has proven. I'm 32; I look back at me at 18, 19, 20, even 25 and laugh at how little I knew. I have learned so much since then, and continue to do so. The main problem with being young is that you don't realize what you've yet to realize.
- binarysolo 14y ago
  Age is correlative to wisdom, and yes, wisdom has plenty of value. That being said, there are lots of exciting things to do when you know not what you realize. Especially for certain types of overachievers and perfectionists, we are significantly more hampered by what we can do excellently vs what we can simply deliver passably. Go enjoy life and collect those data points, success and failure. :)
- wpietri 14y ago
  > The longer you are on this earth, the more wisdom and experience you will acquire. Well, maybe. You get experience when things happen. The more you play it safe, the less happens. And you only get wisdom when you think about your experiences. There are plenty of people with wisdom well beyond their years. > The main problem with being young is that you don't realize what you've yet to realize. Bad news! It gets worse. At some point, just when you start to feel like you know what you don't know, you realize that they are making new things up faster than you can keep track. Talking to people a generation younger than me can be a humbling experience. I have to tread carefully, as you do when you're talking with a person from another country.
  - flatline3 14y ago
    > There are plenty of people with wisdom well beyond their years. I still haven't met any. I've met plenty of smart kids, and I'm pretty sure I was one, 15 years ago. However, I had no idea what I was doing, and worse yet, had the hubris to think I did. I was insufferable, and I'd never hire 15-years-ago me. I also won't hire any other young engineers -- I'll let them find out how little they actually know on someone else's dime. On the other hand, if I was in the VC game, I'd absolutely leverage young engineers as grist for my mill. They're the most amenable to the risk, and it doesn't really matter if the vast majority of small investments fail (and they will, especially given the inexperienced teams), if you hit just a few home run exits. > Bad news! It gets worse. At some point, just when you start to feel like you know what you don't know, you realize that they are making new things up faster than you can keep track. Talking to people a generation younger than me can be a humbling experience. I have to tread carefully, as you do when you're talking with a person from another country. That's unnecessarily defeatist. There are steady advances, but there's very little that's genuinely new under the sun, and quite a bit of what the youngsters get excited about is just the cyclic rediscovery of what we already knew.
wamatt 14y ago
Sounds like rather remarkable story, and might have read it all, had the annoyingly small font size, not been forced on Chrome and Safari users. Grandpa's eyes at age 33, can't read your blog comfortably, as a result. :p -webkit-text-size-adjust [1][2], is just NOT cool [1] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1831922/how-to-prevent-users-from-resizing-the-font-on-my-web-site/12263866#12263866 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1831922/how-to-prevent-us... [2] http://theindustry.cc/css/style.css http://theindustry.cc/css/style.css
- eli 14y ago
  That is obnoxious. Here's a workaround: http://viewtext.org/article?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftheindustry.cc%2F2012%2F09%2F14%2Fyoure-young-im-18-so-what%2F http://viewtext.org/article?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftheindustry.cc%...
  - wamatt 14y ago
    Thanks :). PS didn't mean to be harsh, I really appreciate it when others take the time to tell me that sort of thing, as it helps one to improve, but maybe you see it differently.
    - eli 14y ago
      Oops--actually I was agreeing with you :) Restricting font resizing is the obnoxious act!
- Stratoscope 14y ago
  Here's a userstyle that turns off -webkit-text-size-adjust:none on all sites: http://userstyles.org/styles/54719/ctrl-plus-text-zoom-fix http://userstyles.org/styles/54719/ctrl-plus-text-zoom-fix
mgkimsal 14y ago
This may sound all bitter and such from some 'old guy', but... I wonder how Jared will view things at 50. Will he be saying "age is just a number", or might he find that people start to pass him over for younger blood? I do realize that much of his story hinged on getting connected to people without them knowing his age up front, but at some point, people will know your age (range, or at least guess somewhat accurately). I'm not saying he's right or wrong, or I'm right or wrong - I'm not sure there is a 'right' or 'wrong' to be found, but I'm very curious about what his perspective will be 30 years from now.
shousper 14y ago
I used to think the same as Jared. I was 14 and writing DirectX 8 mini games for fun in VB6. Thought I could get a job soon, and I'd set myself up nice and early in life. In high school I had a few "clients" for websites and such as well, as I'd learn PHP by that stage, along with the usual XHTML and CSS - almost just like Jared. It's not the same though. In the professional space, there is SO many more factors that you're just not ready for until you've worked for a company or two. That being said, there are exceptional people out there, and they shouldn't be judged by their age. Soon I think there will be more of them. We really just have to remember that no matter how old or "wise" we supposedly get, we're no better than anyone else. We all deserve a chance sometimes. """ Listen up, maggots. You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else. We are the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world. We are all part of the same compost heap.
- encoderer 14y ago
  > [I learned XHTML and CSS in High School] Wow. A WC3 specification has never made me feel so old.
  - shousper 14y ago
    My bad. I'm 25 now, does that help? Haha
codyZ 14y ago
Jared, I nearly cried at the end of reading. So many people, even those closest to me, never believed (and still do not) or understood what you have so beautifully and artfully articulated. Reading what you wrote, I could relate to your every sentiment. People think that just because of an age, we lack the ability to create and provide amazing things. It works against us, beyond the ‘cute’ factor, and it is seemingly a constant pressure and embarrassment that we have no hold over. Then, even in our best moments, people will question what we’ve done and dismiss it as nothing more than an ‘exercise’. It’s aggravating, frustrating and depressing. But then we’ll have those amazing experiences where we meet ‘adults’ that understand this and they treat us like equals. Our opinion, expertise, and passion weigh so much more than a number. The level of gratification from meeting these people, to know that there are others that accept the results we produce, is simply awe-inspiring. Among my circle of friends back in High School, I can think of only a select few who I can confide with these thoughts. It’s so difficult trying to find someone that really understands these kinds of struggles- the dismissive remarks, the attitude of negativity and failure, etc that people give when they find out your ‘age’. Thank You for sharing your post with HN. To know that someone else is out there who truly understands these trials and struggles makes me feel just a bit less lonely – to know that I’m not the only one who feels that way about entrepreneurship. Your post was inspiring and for all the articles I’ve read on HN, yours makes everything worth it.
- moe 14y ago
  These teenage angst posts are both a little amusing and a little disturbing. I'll skip the amusement part which you'll realize as you become older and just give you a little warning on this one: But then we’ll have those amazing experiences where we meet ‘adults’ that understand this and they treat us like equals. Be aware that there's not a small number of people who will not hesitate to take advantage of young eagerness. Especially in the startup scene. Learn to distinguish between people who treat you well because they respect you, and people who treat you well because you're running half their business for an intern-salary. It's more common than you, at your age, think.
  - codyZ 14y ago
    Ahh, another one. I appreciate the lesson and understand that wisdom also comes with age. I don't dismiss that - in fact I realize and acknowledge that. That's why people have mentors, people with decades of life experience to learn from. "Learn to distinguish between people who treat you well because they respect you, and people who treat you well because you're running half their business for an intern-salary." Perhaps that is something you did not learn in your youth, but you should know that does not mean that those of similar youth age don't realize that. Personally, this was a point I exploited when I ran my business. Having interns that were years older than me doing work for me. Quite "amusing", as you point out, now that I think back... Nevertheless, I think your advice is true. Lots of people out to take advantage of young people. This is not new, though and anyone with the level of experience in business having done work previously in youth years would know this. The pattern that I've noticed is most people will speak similar to you. Those that don't and truly appreciate it were once young entrepreneurs themselves and experienced their levels of 'success' so they understand it. Though perhaps I just choose to surround myself with mentors of that particular quality.
46Bit 14y ago
I hear you. People often seem to think I've done a lot for my age, whilst I'm thought strange for not necessarily agreeing. I think the big thing is that most people don't have that interesting a life until after college, and many of those immediately get a relatively boring job. Starting to get noticed and do interesting things at a younger age just came natural to me, so in a lot of ways I never considered it an achievement until recently.
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nookiemonster 14y ago
Something I didn't understand at 18 (that I do at 35) is that your 'enemies' may be dealing with things you simply cannot understand. If a coworker is belligerent to an 18 year old, they are assholes. To a 35 year old (at least to me), the first thing I think of is that I have no idea what their home life is like. People endure crazy life experiences. I am working with them on a problem that results in revenue for both of us. Just because we're making money, doesn't mean that they're dealing with problems of personal identity, cancer, financial ruin, etc. Age matters, kid. It fucking sucks. It's cool that you're punk rock about this. But you will achieve more & achieve faster when you realize that age really does matter. (p.s.- age is not a way to measure wisdom, but it is a wisdom indicator)
- deleted 14y ago
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- daeken 14y ago
  > If a coworker is belligerent to an 18 year old, they are assholes. To a 35 year old (at least to me), the first thing I think of is that I have no idea what their home life is like. I'm sorry, but I don't care what your home life is when you're at work. You're there to do your job, and communicating with your coworkers without being an ass is part of that. It sucks that <insert bad thing here>, but your job should not be affected by that. If we're out at a pub in a non-professional setting, that's different; feel free to pour out your soul. But when we're on the clock, just do your job. I say this having had a very, very close friend die on the morning of my first real world product launch. I had been up all night hammering out every last detail when I got the call from my mom, around 7am. At that moment I knew that the right thing to do was to finish what I had to do, and go home and mourn on my own time; it was what was fair to my coworkers, working right along with me, and to myself. It wasn't their problem, and if I had lashed out at them it would've done nothing but impede our progress. Sometimes you have to step up and do what needs to be done.
  - kahawe 14y ago
    It is good that you can separate the two so well. Depending on where you work you may find out very quickly that a LOT of people can't... they consciously or sub-consciously take their problems with them. And I think the older you get, the more "self-righteous" you are about it, as in more likely to not care just as much and turn your bad feelings out instead of keeping them in and being a good soldier.
nookiemonster 14y ago
Something I didn't understand at 18 (that I do at 35) is that your 'enemies' may be dealing with things you simply cannot understand. If a coworker is belligerent to an 18 year old, they are assholes. To a 35 year old (at least to me), the first thing I think of is that I have no idea what their home life is like. People endure crazy life experiences. I am working with them on a problem that results in revenue for both of us. Just because we're making money, doesn't mean that they're dealing with problems of personal identity, cancer, financial ruin, etc. Age matters, kid. It fucking sucks. It's cool that you're punk rock about this. But you will achieve more & achieve faster when you realize that age really does matter. (p.s.- age is not a way to measure wisdom, but it is a wisdom indicator)
smosher 14y ago
Ten Thousand Hours.
mdkess 14y ago
This is a beautiful post. Here's the deal. As you get older, more and more people fall into mediocrity. Age is a number - it's also a responsibility. You will meet 40 year olds who you'll think - what the fuck did you do with your life? And you'll meet 40 year olds who you'll wish that - at some moment of divine clarity - you'll be half as smart as. The second hand counts with stunning accuracy. Don't judge yourself against the mediocre. Look at the people who rose to the top. Some were smart at 18 and drifted off of that cleverness for quite some time until it caught up to them. Others rose above. Rise above.
GAPeach 14y ago
Keep pushing, don't stop. I have seen many people peak at 18. The key is to keep moving your feet even when it feels like you are not going anywhere. PUSH PUSH PUSH! Happy Birthday, Lad:)
ekm2 14y ago
When the young say,"there are some young people who are wise beyond their years",you should translate it as "I am one of those young people who is wise beyond my years."No wise person ever says that.
- adrianhoward 14y ago
  When the young say,"there are some young people who are wise beyond their years",you should translate it as "I am one of those young people who is wise beyond my years."No wise person ever says that. What happens when "old" folk like me and @wpetrie say it? :-) I am wiser than I was in my 20s, but I know people in their 20s who have become wiser faster than I did. They had more stuff happen to them (through hard work, or good luck, or bad luck) - and learned from it well.
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Xcelerate 14y ago
Wow, I am amazed and a bit disappointed with a lot of these responses. I've seen plenty of young people who are much more mature, intelligent, and hard-working than most 40 and 50 year olds. Yes, in general there is a correlation with increasing age and other positive traits, but there are plenty of exceptions that cannot be overlooked. To overlook someone simply because of age would be extremely foolish.
- bradleyjg 14y ago
  Intelligence and hard-work are extremely important, but it can't wholly make for experience. How can you write about start-ups without ever having lived through a downturn? Sure, you can read about it, but the proper level of skepticism bordering on cynicism is impossible if all you've ever seen is the fat years.
  - Xcelerate 14y ago
    If you've done enough mathematical analysis of previous downturns and trends, there is no need to experience one yourself. You can obtain all of the information you need to make better (future) predictions through objective study, and in my opinion this is much more effective than some sort of intuitive hunch accumulated through the years.
    - paulhauggis 14y ago
      Are you 18 yourself? I would be surprised if you weren't, because now that I'm 30, I don't believe the way you do anymore. Some knowledge you can only gain through experience, no matter how smart you think you are.
      - Xcelerate 14y ago
        No, I'm not. I'm 22. I realize a lot of people older than me enjoy saying "I used to think the way you did, but now I've seen the light", but I've found myself to be fairly consistent over the years. I've had no epiphanies or deep insights into the "way things should be" just because I've gotten older. I think perhaps it is a psychological trick -- you just assume that some sort of deeper thinking comes as you age. There's a lot of great physicists who did their best work in their early 20s and never did much great afterwards because they got locked into one way of looking at things. If you want, I'll get back on this thread in 15 years and tell you if you were right or not regarding additional accumulation of "deep knowledge" (whatever that vaguely-formed concept should represent). >> "Are you 18? I would be surprised if you weren't." At least to me, this comes across as sort of an arrogant comment that I really wouldn't expect on Hacker News. This whole "wisdom with age" is a lot of unfalsifiable nonsense the way I see it. Any sort of experiment I could propose would be shot down with "Oh, don't worry about it. There's just something magic about getting older, and well, you really can't say anything to challenge that.
Tichy 14y ago
I'm all for starting young, in fact I am downright angry because I think our educational system is holding us back (living in Germany). Just a note, though: you won't stay young. I am not sure it is even worth fussing about being too young, because while you are busy fussing, suddenly you are already old.
webjunkie 14y ago
"Today I’m 18. I: have worked at two major startups, have written for AppAdvice, Macgasm, Envato, brushed Mashable, encountered numerous entrepreneurs, run The Industry, advise two startups, am a team member of Advise.me..." I don't know what to think. It's great what he achieved, and I respect that. However, I think he might wake up one day and start asking himself, what did I do? Was my youth fun? Did I go out with people and do what kids usually do or did I just try to accomplish things and get my career somewhere? When I hear someone being "only 17", or "only 20", or whatever, and wanting to be an entrepreneur, I don't rule them out because they are too young and have too few experience. I worry that they might miss out on living their life.
- sltkr 14y ago
  I think it's pretty simplistic, not to mention rather patronizing, to suggest that the only proper way to spend one's youth it to waste time on stuff that other teenagers do, and that people who aspire to something else must be protected from themselves.
nkoren 14y ago
Point 1: Age may be a proxy for experience, or wisdom, or whatever -- but anyone who evaluates individuals based on proxies rather than based on their actual attributes is both lazy and (by definition) prejudiced. It's always possible that an individual -- young or old -- will greatly exceed the average capabilities of their age-group. Moreover, those who exceed the average capabilities of their age-group are likely to be extraordinary individuals in more ways than one -- more worth getting to know, in my experience, than individuals who merely live up to the average capabilities of their age-group. Point 2: I, too, was a wunderkind -- and part of me regrets it. By age 12 I was hacking around the Freenets; by age 14 I'd tested out of high school; by age 16 I'd left home and was working for a well-known architectural institute; by age 18 I was running its computer department and my 3D visualisations and been featured on PBS and NHK, and exhibited around the world. But I was so busy being a wunderkind that I never took the time to be an actual kid. I was enormously serious: didn't goof off, didn't party, didn't kiss a girl until I was damn near 20. I wish I'd gotten an earlier start on all that. Honestly, there's plenty of time in life to rack up accomplishments, but youth is something that you only have once, and my advice to other wunderkind is to exploit the hell out of being young while you still can. (Not that I would've listened to such advice myself...)
- bmelton 14y ago
  On the flip side, I was identified as a genius level IQ at an early age, joined Mensa, was utterly bored to tears by it and then proceeded to go be as 'normal' a child as I could be. I fell in with the cool crowd, cut more school than I attended, graduated with a grade .01 points above failing (I'd become an expert at doing the minimum), learned about recreational drugs and spent years in a drug-induced fog. Later in life I decided to start applying myself and join the work force in IT and found myself utterly unprepared. Work was never hard, naturally, but it took me a long time to get up to speed on the normal, expected social interactions between co-workers. In summation, while I like who I am and what I do now, I'm often plagued with pangs of regret at having wasted away all that time to rack up accomplishments and get something done with my life. There's still time, naturally, and I don't have a pressing need in life for anything more than I have, and things just move generally slower with a family involved.
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systems 14y ago
i would have to say age does matter i am sure by the time he is my age he would have done a lot more than i dream could do but i would never have someone so young as my partner, or even hire him for any critical job he have so little too loose at this young age ... its too risky to make business with him
dutchbrit 14y ago
Reminds me of when I was 15 (now 24), I started designing & building porn sites for customers that didn't know my age. Made a lot of money that way. Also started my own, but no longer associated with that industry. To be honest, young people are very talented, they haven't been moulded into a certain shape or way yet, and I tend to get the feeling they think more out of the box. That being said, with age comes wisdom, you start to learn more and more, what works, and what doesn't work. You either have talent, or you don't, sure experience is good. But people evolve in different ways, some faster than others. Even though you're younger than your competition, you still might have more experience, or you just might be 10x better. I've only been turned down once for a fulltime job at Philips, when I was 18. They liked my work but wanted someone older. I could fully understand that, and wasn't too bothered by it. Just go on, stay focused and you'll get very far. Your work and socializing skills are key, not your age.
conradev 14y ago
I can't agree more with the contents of this article. It's important to abstract age away from how you represent yourself, for a number of reasons. Age automatically restricts your opportunities. I have gotten a number of serious job offers from reputable companies, and none of them were aware of my age. While a lot of people in the startup industry are not age-biased, I have a feeling that if my age were advertised on my profiles, these opportunities would not have been extended to me. When I asked around for a summer internship this past summer, my boss said he had not realized how old I was, at first, when he extended the offer. I have found that it is much more difficult to prove your worth as an engineer when you are underage and self-taught. This is why you need to work on personal projects, and finish them. Also, while I have not experienced this firsthand, some people are not as nice as you would like to think. If they realize you are "just a kid", they might feel it appropriate to lowball you or cheat work out of you. It's despicable, but I'm sure it happens. The advice in the article suggests that you attend conferences. I would generalize this. Network with your local community, as well as the global community that you come in contact with at conferences. Hailing from the wonderful land of Philadelphia, I am an active member and occasional speaker in PhillyCocoa, the Philadelphia CocoaHeads chapter. I also was a member of Venturef0rth this summer, a rising incubator space. I plan to attend a hackathon when I have time (I'm missing one at UPenn as I speak :p ). At these places and more, I have met a slew of awesome people, from whom I have learned innumerable things. That's not to downplay conferences, either, as an attendee of The Last HOPE, DEFCON 19, Google I/O '12, HOPE9 and others. The thing about conferences is that they do cost money (including travel and lodging), and not everyone can afford to attend them. And because it's relevant, today I am turning 16.
weej 14y ago
One important point that hasn't been touched on is the neurological development that comes with age. It's not until your 20s does one's frontal cortex (or lobes) of the brain fully develop. Until this occurs one physically lacks the ability to control higher-order functioning. This could range from long term planning, motivation, and inhibition towards behavior. When you're young you're somewhat crazy and brash. This allows one to take chances, push the envelope, and reach breakthroughs. With that said it works both ways. The youth lack the ability fully reason, plan, and in SOME cases think logically through a problem (in the sense of understanding the repercussions of their actions).
tete 14y ago
I kinda agree. I am 23, but even though age is a proxy for experience one shouldn't overvalue experience in first place. In face experience can be a huge hindrance. Experience can (but doesn't necessarily) lead to be less open, to be less creative and also can cause you to lose the ability to see things open and from different perspectives. People (I) start to rely on their experience and while this can allow you to do things more effectively, because you have them in your working memory, etc. However, when I look back to the things I used to do when I was eleven, I felt like there were no border. I was able to understand concepts instantly, just read things and I knew it. Sometimes I think a wunderkind is just someone whose hobbies are related to school wisdom. When I look back to every teacher was constantly calling me professor just because I read the stuff in the math books, read other books, liked to watch the educational program (which I our class watched again in high school) one can just think so. On the flip side I didn't learn a lot of the things with other hobbies did. Sometimes a wunderkind is someone with lots of hobbies and having basics skills everywhere seems like a good countermeasure to relying on experience you made in a certain field. Well, my life wasn't that good though. I was that kind of geek that got beaten up by others for good marks and so stopped going to school for a long time (but decided to still get my finals at a later, just learning on my own doing the necessary tests). Still, when I look back to that time when everyone called me professor things changed. I think I made a lot of different experiences because of it though. These days I don't give the impression of a creepy geek anymore, because my social skills were forced to develop quite nicely. Basically why I want to write this is because I know there are a lot of people who are outsiders and stay like that all their life. I know how it is when they say you have a high IQ and you try to be super nice, because you may find it nice to be a geek around some people, but feel strange around others. But hey being a geek means being smart, so one can just spend a nice time doing something social, looking what others do, how they react and also self reflect on your self. Even if non-geeks might behave differently, they are also just people like you. I think most geeks tend do focus on themselves and when they are shy they try their best to look good and then (correctly) come to the conclusion one shouldn't try to be different and just accept oneself. However what they sometimes forget is that one usually can learn most by just listening. Completely focus on someone else. One doesn't need to fear looking like a creep, if you just listen and people are even going to like you for it! About the rest of this article: I don't know, but it looks like something that is going to bore one in the long run. Yeah startups are exciting and I am working for one too. It's great fun to actually do thing, but first off I don't really need a job to do something great and really wouldn't consider creating a successful company the greatest thing ever. It was done over and over and all you get is money, which seems like something rather boring if you are not a poor person or just addicted to it, which also won't make you happy. So question: Do you really consider creating something like tumblr a great goal? I mean, if you take away all the hype then it's just a blog and the ability to like other blog posts. I wouldn't really call that something great, amazing and influential (not in the way I think most people want to be influential I guess). It's no revolutionary great thing and isn't more likely to save lives than to destroy them. Of course I'd be happy and proud of myself, if I created tumblr, twitter or Facebook and see how it is successful, but at least I wouldn't feel like I had done something great with my life. If you do that's great, go for it! Speaking about tumblr, I'd feel like a lot these "average" (that sounds really bad, sorry) people did more with writing a simple blog post and while I would find it super awesome that they did it with my software it just feels wrong to act like I'd really have contributed a lot by creating tumblr. There were easy to use blogs before that and hey, who says things actually didn't make it harder or something even better could have happened. So before you go on, I urge you to think about what exactly makes you great about what you plan, else you risk to feel like you have wasted your time. When you are in your early twenties, you'll know what I mean. ;)
imyoung 14y ago
i'm 20, work at a tech startup in NYC. fuck everything about this kid. real phony, rubs me the wrong way 100%

149 points by jarederondu 14y ago

qq66 14y ago

Pretty cool both that you are accomplishing so much at your age, and also pretty cool that the industry is embracing that (try doing that in the biotech or financial services industry). Good luck!

abdurraheem 14y ago

Fellow Baltimorean! It's not so boring... so long as you're over 21.

thesash 14y ago

That's one hell of a story of hustle. What you've discovered, I think, is (paraphrasing Steve Jobs [1]) that the world around you was built by people just like you. You've seen behind the curtain, and there's no wizard, only some dude who's no smarter than you are figuring it out as he goes along. Kudos to you for discovering this at such a young age, I didn't get it 'till my twenties. My advice to you: put the last section of your article out of your mind. You've achieved some pretty amazing things, focus on that, and keep shipping. Comparing yourself to others is a path to insanity, there will always be someone who has accomplished more, done it faster, made it look easier, etc. And one more thing-- you're never too young to do anything, but keep in mind that with age comes experience. There are people out there (like the ones you mentioned), who have been where you are before, have faced similar challenges, and overcome them. No matter how early you start, you'll always have more experience the older you get, so continue to seek out the advice and mentorship of those who have walked the path before you. [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UvEiSa6_EPA http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=U...

tatsuke95 14y ago

>"Age is just a number." Age is a proxy for wisdom. The longer you are on this earth, the more wisdom and experience you will acquire. That has value. But that's not to say that age alone should be a dealbreaker or barrier to success, as the author has proven. I'm 32; I look back at me at 18, 19, 20, even 25 and laugh at how little I knew. I have learned so much since then, and continue to do so. The main problem with being young is that you don't realize what you've yet to realize.

binarysolo 14y ago
Age is correlative to wisdom, and yes, wisdom has plenty of value. That being said, there are lots of exciting things to do when you know not what you realize. Especially for certain types of overachievers and perfectionists, we are significantly more hampered by what we can do excellently vs what we can simply deliver passably. Go enjoy life and collect those data points, success and failure. :)
wpietri 14y ago
> The longer you are on this earth, the more wisdom and experience you will acquire. Well, maybe. You get experience when things happen. The more you play it safe, the less happens. And you only get wisdom when you think about your experiences. There are plenty of people with wisdom well beyond their years. > The main problem with being young is that you don't realize what you've yet to realize. Bad news! It gets worse. At some point, just when you start to feel like you know what you don't know, you realize that they are making new things up faster than you can keep track. Talking to people a generation younger than me can be a humbling experience. I have to tread carefully, as you do when you're talking with a person from another country.
- flatline3 14y ago
  > There are plenty of people with wisdom well beyond their years. I still haven't met any. I've met plenty of smart kids, and I'm pretty sure I was one, 15 years ago. However, I had no idea what I was doing, and worse yet, had the hubris to think I did. I was insufferable, and I'd never hire 15-years-ago me. I also won't hire any other young engineers -- I'll let them find out how little they actually know on someone else's dime. On the other hand, if I was in the VC game, I'd absolutely leverage young engineers as grist for my mill. They're the most amenable to the risk, and it doesn't really matter if the vast majority of small investments fail (and they will, especially given the inexperienced teams), if you hit just a few home run exits. > Bad news! It gets worse. At some point, just when you start to feel like you know what you don't know, you realize that they are making new things up faster than you can keep track. Talking to people a generation younger than me can be a humbling experience. I have to tread carefully, as you do when you're talking with a person from another country. That's unnecessarily defeatist. There are steady advances, but there's very little that's genuinely new under the sun, and quite a bit of what the youngsters get excited about is just the cyclic rediscovery of what we already knew.

wamatt 14y ago

Sounds like rather remarkable story, and might have read it all, had the annoyingly small font size, not been forced on Chrome and Safari users. Grandpa's eyes at age 33, can't read your blog comfortably, as a result. :p -webkit-text-size-adjust [1][2], is just NOT cool [1] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1831922/how-to-prevent-users-from-resizing-the-font-on-my-web-site/12263866#12263866 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1831922/how-to-prevent-us... [2] http://theindustry.cc/css/style.css http://theindustry.cc/css/style.css

eli 14y ago
That is obnoxious. Here's a workaround: http://viewtext.org/article?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftheindustry.cc%2F2012%2F09%2F14%2Fyoure-young-im-18-so-what%2F http://viewtext.org/article?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftheindustry.cc%...
- wamatt 14y ago
  Thanks :). PS didn't mean to be harsh, I really appreciate it when others take the time to tell me that sort of thing, as it helps one to improve, but maybe you see it differently.
  - eli 14y ago
    Oops--actually I was agreeing with you :) Restricting font resizing is the obnoxious act!
Stratoscope 14y ago
Here's a userstyle that turns off -webkit-text-size-adjust:none on all sites: http://userstyles.org/styles/54719/ctrl-plus-text-zoom-fix http://userstyles.org/styles/54719/ctrl-plus-text-zoom-fix

mgkimsal 14y ago

This may sound all bitter and such from some 'old guy', but... I wonder how Jared will view things at 50. Will he be saying "age is just a number", or might he find that people start to pass him over for younger blood? I do realize that much of his story hinged on getting connected to people without them knowing his age up front, but at some point, people will know your age (range, or at least guess somewhat accurately). I'm not saying he's right or wrong, or I'm right or wrong - I'm not sure there is a 'right' or 'wrong' to be found, but I'm very curious about what his perspective will be 30 years from now.

shousper 14y ago

I used to think the same as Jared. I was 14 and writing DirectX 8 mini games for fun in VB6. Thought I could get a job soon, and I'd set myself up nice and early in life. In high school I had a few "clients" for websites and such as well, as I'd learn PHP by that stage, along with the usual XHTML and CSS - almost just like Jared. It's not the same though. In the professional space, there is SO many more factors that you're just not ready for until you've worked for a company or two. That being said, there are exceptional people out there, and they shouldn't be judged by their age. Soon I think there will be more of them. We really just have to remember that no matter how old or "wise" we supposedly get, we're no better than anyone else. We all deserve a chance sometimes. """ Listen up, maggots. You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else. We are the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world. We are all part of the same compost heap.

encoderer 14y ago
> [I learned XHTML and CSS in High School] Wow. A WC3 specification has never made me feel so old.
- shousper 14y ago
  My bad. I'm 25 now, does that help? Haha

codyZ 14y ago

Jared, I nearly cried at the end of reading. So many people, even those closest to me, never believed (and still do not) or understood what you have so beautifully and artfully articulated. Reading what you wrote, I could relate to your every sentiment. People think that just because of an age, we lack the ability to create and provide amazing things. It works against us, beyond the ‘cute’ factor, and it is seemingly a constant pressure and embarrassment that we have no hold over. Then, even in our best moments, people will question what we’ve done and dismiss it as nothing more than an ‘exercise’. It’s aggravating, frustrating and depressing. But then we’ll have those amazing experiences where we meet ‘adults’ that understand this and they treat us like equals. Our opinion, expertise, and passion weigh so much more than a number. The level of gratification from meeting these people, to know that there are others that accept the results we produce, is simply awe-inspiring. Among my circle of friends back in High School, I can think of only a select few who I can confide with these thoughts. It’s so difficult trying to find someone that really understands these kinds of struggles- the dismissive remarks, the attitude of negativity and failure, etc that people give when they find out your ‘age’. Thank You for sharing your post with HN. To know that someone else is out there who truly understands these trials and struggles makes me feel just a bit less lonely – to know that I’m not the only one who feels that way about entrepreneurship. Your post was inspiring and for all the articles I’ve read on HN, yours makes everything worth it.

moe 14y ago
These teenage angst posts are both a little amusing and a little disturbing. I'll skip the amusement part which you'll realize as you become older and just give you a little warning on this one: But then we’ll have those amazing experiences where we meet ‘adults’ that understand this and they treat us like equals. Be aware that there's not a small number of people who will not hesitate to take advantage of young eagerness. Especially in the startup scene. Learn to distinguish between people who treat you well because they respect you, and people who treat you well because you're running half their business for an intern-salary. It's more common than you, at your age, think.
- codyZ 14y ago
  Ahh, another one. I appreciate the lesson and understand that wisdom also comes with age. I don't dismiss that - in fact I realize and acknowledge that. That's why people have mentors, people with decades of life experience to learn from. "Learn to distinguish between people who treat you well because they respect you, and people who treat you well because you're running half their business for an intern-salary." Perhaps that is something you did not learn in your youth, but you should know that does not mean that those of similar youth age don't realize that. Personally, this was a point I exploited when I ran my business. Having interns that were years older than me doing work for me. Quite "amusing", as you point out, now that I think back... Nevertheless, I think your advice is true. Lots of people out to take advantage of young people. This is not new, though and anyone with the level of experience in business having done work previously in youth years would know this. The pattern that I've noticed is most people will speak similar to you. Those that don't and truly appreciate it were once young entrepreneurs themselves and experienced their levels of 'success' so they understand it. Though perhaps I just choose to surround myself with mentors of that particular quality.

46Bit 14y ago

I hear you. People often seem to think I've done a lot for my age, whilst I'm thought strange for not necessarily agreeing. I think the big thing is that most people don't have that interesting a life until after college, and many of those immediately get a relatively boring job. Starting to get noticed and do interesting things at a younger age just came natural to me, so in a lot of ways I never considered it an achievement until recently.

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nookiemonster 14y ago

Something I didn't understand at 18 (that I do at 35) is that your 'enemies' may be dealing with things you simply cannot understand. If a coworker is belligerent to an 18 year old, they are assholes. To a 35 year old (at least to me), the first thing I think of is that I have no idea what their home life is like. People endure crazy life experiences. I am working with them on a problem that results in revenue for both of us. Just because we're making money, doesn't mean that they're dealing with problems of personal identity, cancer, financial ruin, etc. Age matters, kid. It fucking sucks. It's cool that you're punk rock about this. But you will achieve more & achieve faster when you realize that age really does matter. (p.s.- age is not a way to measure wisdom, but it is a wisdom indicator)

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daeken 14y ago
> If a coworker is belligerent to an 18 year old, they are assholes. To a 35 year old (at least to me), the first thing I think of is that I have no idea what their home life is like. I'm sorry, but I don't care what your home life is when you're at work. You're there to do your job, and communicating with your coworkers without being an ass is part of that. It sucks that <insert bad thing here>, but your job should not be affected by that. If we're out at a pub in a non-professional setting, that's different; feel free to pour out your soul. But when we're on the clock, just do your job. I say this having had a very, very close friend die on the morning of my first real world product launch. I had been up all night hammering out every last detail when I got the call from my mom, around 7am. At that moment I knew that the right thing to do was to finish what I had to do, and go home and mourn on my own time; it was what was fair to my coworkers, working right along with me, and to myself. It wasn't their problem, and if I had lashed out at them it would've done nothing but impede our progress. Sometimes you have to step up and do what needs to be done.
- kahawe 14y ago
  It is good that you can separate the two so well. Depending on where you work you may find out very quickly that a LOT of people can't... they consciously or sub-consciously take their problems with them. And I think the older you get, the more "self-righteous" you are about it, as in more likely to not care just as much and turn your bad feelings out instead of keeping them in and being a good soldier.

nookiemonster 14y ago

smosher 14y ago

Ten Thousand Hours.

mdkess 14y ago

This is a beautiful post. Here's the deal. As you get older, more and more people fall into mediocrity. Age is a number - it's also a responsibility. You will meet 40 year olds who you'll think - what the fuck did you do with your life? And you'll meet 40 year olds who you'll wish that - at some moment of divine clarity - you'll be half as smart as. The second hand counts with stunning accuracy. Don't judge yourself against the mediocre. Look at the people who rose to the top. Some were smart at 18 and drifted off of that cleverness for quite some time until it caught up to them. Others rose above. Rise above.

GAPeach 14y ago

Keep pushing, don't stop. I have seen many people peak at 18. The key is to keep moving your feet even when it feels like you are not going anywhere. PUSH PUSH PUSH! Happy Birthday, Lad:)

ekm2 14y ago

When the young say,"there are some young people who are wise beyond their years",you should translate it as "I am one of those young people who is wise beyond my years."No wise person ever says that.

adrianhoward 14y ago
When the young say,"there are some young people who are wise beyond their years",you should translate it as "I am one of those young people who is wise beyond my years."No wise person ever says that. What happens when "old" folk like me and @wpetrie say it? :-) I am wiser than I was in my 20s, but I know people in their 20s who have become wiser faster than I did. They had more stuff happen to them (through hard work, or good luck, or bad luck) - and learned from it well.

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Xcelerate 14y ago

Wow, I am amazed and a bit disappointed with a lot of these responses. I've seen plenty of young people who are much more mature, intelligent, and hard-working than most 40 and 50 year olds. Yes, in general there is a correlation with increasing age and other positive traits, but there are plenty of exceptions that cannot be overlooked. To overlook someone simply because of age would be extremely foolish.

bradleyjg 14y ago
Intelligence and hard-work are extremely important, but it can't wholly make for experience. How can you write about start-ups without ever having lived through a downturn? Sure, you can read about it, but the proper level of skepticism bordering on cynicism is impossible if all you've ever seen is the fat years.
- Xcelerate 14y ago
  If you've done enough mathematical analysis of previous downturns and trends, there is no need to experience one yourself. You can obtain all of the information you need to make better (future) predictions through objective study, and in my opinion this is much more effective than some sort of intuitive hunch accumulated through the years.
  - paulhauggis 14y ago
    Are you 18 yourself? I would be surprised if you weren't, because now that I'm 30, I don't believe the way you do anymore. Some knowledge you can only gain through experience, no matter how smart you think you are.
    - Xcelerate 14y ago
      No, I'm not. I'm 22. I realize a lot of people older than me enjoy saying "I used to think the way you did, but now I've seen the light", but I've found myself to be fairly consistent over the years. I've had no epiphanies or deep insights into the "way things should be" just because I've gotten older. I think perhaps it is a psychological trick -- you just assume that some sort of deeper thinking comes as you age. There's a lot of great physicists who did their best work in their early 20s and never did much great afterwards because they got locked into one way of looking at things. If you want, I'll get back on this thread in 15 years and tell you if you were right or not regarding additional accumulation of "deep knowledge" (whatever that vaguely-formed concept should represent). >> "Are you 18? I would be surprised if you weren't." At least to me, this comes across as sort of an arrogant comment that I really wouldn't expect on Hacker News. This whole "wisdom with age" is a lot of unfalsifiable nonsense the way I see it. Any sort of experiment I could propose would be shot down with "Oh, don't worry about it. There's just something magic about getting older, and well, you really can't say anything to challenge that.

Tichy 14y ago

I'm all for starting young, in fact I am downright angry because I think our educational system is holding us back (living in Germany). Just a note, though: you won't stay young. I am not sure it is even worth fussing about being too young, because while you are busy fussing, suddenly you are already old.

webjunkie 14y ago

"Today I’m 18. I: have worked at two major startups, have written for AppAdvice, Macgasm, Envato, brushed Mashable, encountered numerous entrepreneurs, run The Industry, advise two startups, am a team member of Advise.me..." I don't know what to think. It's great what he achieved, and I respect that. However, I think he might wake up one day and start asking himself, what did I do? Was my youth fun? Did I go out with people and do what kids usually do or did I just try to accomplish things and get my career somewhere? When I hear someone being "only 17", or "only 20", or whatever, and wanting to be an entrepreneur, I don't rule them out because they are too young and have too few experience. I worry that they might miss out on living their life.

sltkr 14y ago
I think it's pretty simplistic, not to mention rather patronizing, to suggest that the only proper way to spend one's youth it to waste time on stuff that other teenagers do, and that people who aspire to something else must be protected from themselves.

nkoren 14y ago

Point 1: Age may be a proxy for experience, or wisdom, or whatever -- but anyone who evaluates individuals based on proxies rather than based on their actual attributes is both lazy and (by definition) prejudiced. It's always possible that an individual -- young or old -- will greatly exceed the average capabilities of their age-group. Moreover, those who exceed the average capabilities of their age-group are likely to be extraordinary individuals in more ways than one -- more worth getting to know, in my experience, than individuals who merely live up to the average capabilities of their age-group. Point 2: I, too, was a wunderkind -- and part of me regrets it. By age 12 I was hacking around the Freenets; by age 14 I'd tested out of high school; by age 16 I'd left home and was working for a well-known architectural institute; by age 18 I was running its computer department and my 3D visualisations and been featured on PBS and NHK, and exhibited around the world. But I was so busy being a wunderkind that I never took the time to be an actual kid. I was enormously serious: didn't goof off, didn't party, didn't kiss a girl until I was damn near 20. I wish I'd gotten an earlier start on all that. Honestly, there's plenty of time in life to rack up accomplishments, but youth is something that you only have once, and my advice to other wunderkind is to exploit the hell out of being young while you still can. (Not that I would've listened to such advice myself...)

bmelton 14y ago
On the flip side, I was identified as a genius level IQ at an early age, joined Mensa, was utterly bored to tears by it and then proceeded to go be as 'normal' a child as I could be. I fell in with the cool crowd, cut more school than I attended, graduated with a grade .01 points above failing (I'd become an expert at doing the minimum), learned about recreational drugs and spent years in a drug-induced fog. Later in life I decided to start applying myself and join the work force in IT and found myself utterly unprepared. Work was never hard, naturally, but it took me a long time to get up to speed on the normal, expected social interactions between co-workers. In summation, while I like who I am and what I do now, I'm often plagued with pangs of regret at having wasted away all that time to rack up accomplishments and get something done with my life. There's still time, naturally, and I don't have a pressing need in life for anything more than I have, and things just move generally slower with a family involved.
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systems 14y ago

i would have to say age does matter i am sure by the time he is my age he would have done a lot more than i dream could do but i would never have someone so young as my partner, or even hire him for any critical job he have so little too loose at this young age ... its too risky to make business with him

dutchbrit 14y ago

Reminds me of when I was 15 (now 24), I started designing & building porn sites for customers that didn't know my age. Made a lot of money that way. Also started my own, but no longer associated with that industry. To be honest, young people are very talented, they haven't been moulded into a certain shape or way yet, and I tend to get the feeling they think more out of the box. That being said, with age comes wisdom, you start to learn more and more, what works, and what doesn't work. You either have talent, or you don't, sure experience is good. But people evolve in different ways, some faster than others. Even though you're younger than your competition, you still might have more experience, or you just might be 10x better. I've only been turned down once for a fulltime job at Philips, when I was 18. They liked my work but wanted someone older. I could fully understand that, and wasn't too bothered by it. Just go on, stay focused and you'll get very far. Your work and socializing skills are key, not your age.

conradev 14y ago

I can't agree more with the contents of this article. It's important to abstract age away from how you represent yourself, for a number of reasons. Age automatically restricts your opportunities. I have gotten a number of serious job offers from reputable companies, and none of them were aware of my age. While a lot of people in the startup industry are not age-biased, I have a feeling that if my age were advertised on my profiles, these opportunities would not have been extended to me. When I asked around for a summer internship this past summer, my boss said he had not realized how old I was, at first, when he extended the offer. I have found that it is much more difficult to prove your worth as an engineer when you are underage and self-taught. This is why you need to work on personal projects, and finish them. Also, while I have not experienced this firsthand, some people are not as nice as you would like to think. If they realize you are "just a kid", they might feel it appropriate to lowball you or cheat work out of you. It's despicable, but I'm sure it happens. The advice in the article suggests that you attend conferences. I would generalize this. Network with your local community, as well as the global community that you come in contact with at conferences. Hailing from the wonderful land of Philadelphia, I am an active member and occasional speaker in PhillyCocoa, the Philadelphia CocoaHeads chapter. I also was a member of Venturef0rth this summer, a rising incubator space. I plan to attend a hackathon when I have time (I'm missing one at UPenn as I speak :p ). At these places and more, I have met a slew of awesome people, from whom I have learned innumerable things. That's not to downplay conferences, either, as an attendee of The Last HOPE, DEFCON 19, Google I/O '12, HOPE9 and others. The thing about conferences is that they do cost money (including travel and lodging), and not everyone can afford to attend them. And because it's relevant, today I am turning 16.

weej 14y ago

One important point that hasn't been touched on is the neurological development that comes with age. It's not until your 20s does one's frontal cortex (or lobes) of the brain fully develop. Until this occurs one physically lacks the ability to control higher-order functioning. This could range from long term planning, motivation, and inhibition towards behavior. When you're young you're somewhat crazy and brash. This allows one to take chances, push the envelope, and reach breakthroughs. With that said it works both ways. The youth lack the ability fully reason, plan, and in SOME cases think logically through a problem (in the sense of understanding the repercussions of their actions).

tete 14y ago

I kinda agree. I am 23, but even though age is a proxy for experience one shouldn't overvalue experience in first place. In face experience can be a huge hindrance. Experience can (but doesn't necessarily) lead to be less open, to be less creative and also can cause you to lose the ability to see things open and from different perspectives. People (I) start to rely on their experience and while this can allow you to do things more effectively, because you have them in your working memory, etc. However, when I look back to the things I used to do when I was eleven, I felt like there were no border. I was able to understand concepts instantly, just read things and I knew it. Sometimes I think a wunderkind is just someone whose hobbies are related to school wisdom. When I look back to every teacher was constantly calling me professor just because I read the stuff in the math books, read other books, liked to watch the educational program (which I our class watched again in high school) one can just think so. On the flip side I didn't learn a lot of the things with other hobbies did. Sometimes a wunderkind is someone with lots of hobbies and having basics skills everywhere seems like a good countermeasure to relying on experience you made in a certain field. Well, my life wasn't that good though. I was that kind of geek that got beaten up by others for good marks and so stopped going to school for a long time (but decided to still get my finals at a later, just learning on my own doing the necessary tests). Still, when I look back to that time when everyone called me professor things changed. I think I made a lot of different experiences because of it though. These days I don't give the impression of a creepy geek anymore, because my social skills were forced to develop quite nicely. Basically why I want to write this is because I know there are a lot of people who are outsiders and stay like that all their life. I know how it is when they say you have a high IQ and you try to be super nice, because you may find it nice to be a geek around some people, but feel strange around others. But hey being a geek means being smart, so one can just spend a nice time doing something social, looking what others do, how they react and also self reflect on your self. Even if non-geeks might behave differently, they are also just people like you. I think most geeks tend do focus on themselves and when they are shy they try their best to look good and then (correctly) come to the conclusion one shouldn't try to be different and just accept oneself. However what they sometimes forget is that one usually can learn most by just listening. Completely focus on someone else. One doesn't need to fear looking like a creep, if you just listen and people are even going to like you for it! About the rest of this article: I don't know, but it looks like something that is going to bore one in the long run. Yeah startups are exciting and I am working for one too. It's great fun to actually do thing, but first off I don't really need a job to do something great and really wouldn't consider creating a successful company the greatest thing ever. It was done over and over and all you get is money, which seems like something rather boring if you are not a poor person or just addicted to it, which also won't make you happy. So question: Do you really consider creating something like tumblr a great goal? I mean, if you take away all the hype then it's just a blog and the ability to like other blog posts. I wouldn't really call that something great, amazing and influential (not in the way I think most people want to be influential I guess). It's no revolutionary great thing and isn't more likely to save lives than to destroy them. Of course I'd be happy and proud of myself, if I created tumblr, twitter or Facebook and see how it is successful, but at least I wouldn't feel like I had done something great with my life. If you do that's great, go for it! Speaking about tumblr, I'd feel like a lot these "average" (that sounds really bad, sorry) people did more with writing a simple blog post and while I would find it super awesome that they did it with my software it just feels wrong to act like I'd really have contributed a lot by creating tumblr. There were easy to use blogs before that and hey, who says things actually didn't make it harder or something even better could have happened. So before you go on, I urge you to think about what exactly makes you great about what you plan, else you risk to feel like you have wasted your time. When you are in your early twenties, you'll know what I mean. ;)

imyoung 14y ago

i'm 20, work at a tech startup in NYC. fuck everything about this kid. real phony, rubs me the wrong way 100%