3 ms·

Slow heating boils the frog. Move now to alternatives. If you must use Android, GrapheneOS with Sandboxed Play Services.

asah 1y ago
> If you must use Android the reasonable alternative being... ?
- fsflover 1y ago
  GNU/Linux phones.
  - TeMPOraL 1y ago
    Name three? Unfortunately, "reasonable" generally means "can do the things typically done with smartphones these days", which include things like banking, media streaming, and civic stuff - things mediated by the very systems whose vendors aren't just embracing remote attestation, but actually driving its proliferation. For better or worse[0], this is not a technical problem - it's a social/political one. Technology created it, by making remote attestation possible - but the actual problem is with why companies want to use it. -- [0] - Definitely worse. Technical problems are easy.
    - incompatible 1y ago
      Maybe you need two phones then, one for the civic stuff and the other for private communication.
      - tiku 1y ago
        Perhaps just websites for communication then, through tor or some other protocols.
      - TeMPOraL 1y ago
        I don't care about this kind of private communication. I care about automating and debullshittifying my life, which includes stuff like banking and civics. I didn't learn to program computers so I could use it to shitpost more privately. I learned it so I can make machines deal with things for me the way I want them to.
    - fsflover 1y ago
      > Name three? Openmoko, Pinephone, Librem 5
  - concinds 1y ago
    Are there any that aren't laughably insecure? No? Oh well.
    - fsflover 1y ago
      According to which threat model?
- fifteen1506 1y ago
  You got me. None. I do wish ubports + waydroid would be a reasonable alternative -- but it's wishful thinking.
  - bboygravity 1y ago
    My only hope is Tesla bringing out a phone with it's own OS at some point.
    - macNchz 1y ago
      Tesla...certainly isn't top of mind when I think about makers of technology products that permit true ownership of the hardware / respect their users' privacy.
      - tiku 1y ago
        Also government will not allow it.
    - soraminazuki 1y ago
      A phone made by a car manufacturer that abuses access to car cameras to spy on customers in their homes and share videos of them being naked? You can't even pay me to make me use such crap. https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sensitive-images-recorded-by-customer-cars-2023-04-06/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sens... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tesla-workers-video-naked-customer-b2315922.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tesla-work...
- frm88 1y ago
  For people looking for a new phone it could be either Jolla [0] or Fairphone 6 [1]. Both come with their own OS. [0] https://jolla-devices.com/sailfish_devices/ https://jolla-devices.com/sailfish_devices/ [1] https://shop.fairphone.com/de/the-fairphone-gen-6-e-operating-system https://shop.fairphone.com/de/the-fairphone-gen-6-e-operatin...
  - slmkbh 1y ago
    Fairphone os _is_ android...
    - frm88 1y ago
      Yes, you're correct. With Fairphone 6 and eOS they completely degoogled, tho - at least that's the claim.
zelphirkalt 1y ago
It already took a mountain of resisting the network effect to get at least some half of my friends to chat with me on Signal. The chances to get them to move to something more obscure, that has any additional friction is low and the effort in convincing them will be high. That's not to say I won't try, but man I hope it doesn't come to that.

asah 1y ago

> If you must use Android the reasonable alternative being... ?

fsflover 1y ago
GNU/Linux phones.
- TeMPOraL 1y ago
  Name three? Unfortunately, "reasonable" generally means "can do the things typically done with smartphones these days", which include things like banking, media streaming, and civic stuff - things mediated by the very systems whose vendors aren't just embracing remote attestation, but actually driving its proliferation. For better or worse[0], this is not a technical problem - it's a social/political one. Technology created it, by making remote attestation possible - but the actual problem is with why companies want to use it. -- [0] - Definitely worse. Technical problems are easy.
  - incompatible 1y ago
    Maybe you need two phones then, one for the civic stuff and the other for private communication.
    - tiku 1y ago
      Perhaps just websites for communication then, through tor or some other protocols.
    - TeMPOraL 1y ago
      I don't care about this kind of private communication. I care about automating and debullshittifying my life, which includes stuff like banking and civics. I didn't learn to program computers so I could use it to shitpost more privately. I learned it so I can make machines deal with things for me the way I want them to.
  - fsflover 1y ago
    > Name three? Openmoko, Pinephone, Librem 5
- concinds 1y ago
  Are there any that aren't laughably insecure? No? Oh well.
  - fsflover 1y ago
    According to which threat model?
fifteen1506 1y ago
You got me. None. I do wish ubports + waydroid would be a reasonable alternative -- but it's wishful thinking.
- bboygravity 1y ago
  My only hope is Tesla bringing out a phone with it's own OS at some point.
  - macNchz 1y ago
    Tesla...certainly isn't top of mind when I think about makers of technology products that permit true ownership of the hardware / respect their users' privacy.
    - tiku 1y ago
      Also government will not allow it.
  - soraminazuki 1y ago
    A phone made by a car manufacturer that abuses access to car cameras to spy on customers in their homes and share videos of them being naked? You can't even pay me to make me use such crap. https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sensitive-images-recorded-by-customer-cars-2023-04-06/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sens... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tesla-workers-video-naked-customer-b2315922.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tesla-work...
frm88 1y ago
For people looking for a new phone it could be either Jolla [0] or Fairphone 6 [1]. Both come with their own OS. [0] https://jolla-devices.com/sailfish_devices/ https://jolla-devices.com/sailfish_devices/ [1] https://shop.fairphone.com/de/the-fairphone-gen-6-e-operating-system https://shop.fairphone.com/de/the-fairphone-gen-6-e-operatin...
- slmkbh 1y ago
  Fairphone os _is_ android...
  - frm88 1y ago
    Yes, you're correct. With Fairphone 6 and eOS they completely degoogled, tho - at least that's the claim.

zelphirkalt 1y ago

It already took a mountain of resisting the network effect to get at least some half of my friends to chat with me on Signal. The chances to get them to move to something more obscure, that has any additional friction is low and the effort in convincing them will be high. That's not to say I won't try, but man I hope it doesn't come to that.