3 ms·

When I was young and was reading a lot of pulp science fiction books, I was in love with Mars. But those books are fiction. The reality of Mars is not a great

by codex 14y ago

When I was young and was reading a lot of pulp science fiction books, I was in love with Mars. But those books are fiction. The reality of Mars is not a great cosmic adventure. Mars is a shithole. Don't get me wrong--Mars should be explored, and we will find some truly breathtaking things. And if we find life on Mars, the scientific paydirt will be huge. However, the great finds and exploration of Mars will be done by robots. Sending humans to Mars (or colonizing Mars) is a lot like sending humans to the Sahara desert. Colonize the Sahara? But it's so... dull. And not fun. That's not very romantic. Ultimately that is the reality of 99.9% of Mars. If people are going to die on Mars, they should know that they are not doing it in the name of science and exploration--that task is best left to the robots--but rather in the name of vanity and human tourism. Until Mars can be terraformed to the point where it has 100% of Earth's gravity (I don't even want to contemplate the effects of 1/3 of Earth's gravity on a developing fetus, for example), and a breathable atmosphere, it will be visited only by tourists and robots.

iandanforth 14y ago
Have you ready the Red / Green / Blue mars trilogy? It might change your mind. Also, not that it's possible, but why would you want to increase martian gravity? 1/3G would be awesome for sport.
- jpxxx 14y ago
  I loved those books to death, but the parent is right. Mars is a rustier version of the moon with slightly better scenery. Imagine a life where you as a native Martian never get to go outside, never get to feel fresh air, never get to meet a stranger, never get to storm off, never get the chance to live truly alone, never get to punch a wall, and never get a chance to see another world. No streams, no swimming, no oceans, no forests, nothing. The footprints you make will still be there a hundred million years later. Mars is a one-way trip to a terribly cold and lonely place.
  - waterlesscloud 14y ago
    Sign me up. It's Mars. I think the disconnect here is that there are in fact people who have considered such things and still want to go. It's the pioneer spirit. Hardship is part of the appeal.
    - codex 14y ago
      Absolutely. I really admire the human spirit and how it's gotten us so far, so fast. People will absolutely be willing to sacrifice their lives for Mars, and some people will go to Mars not expecting to die, but will anyway. However, I think these people should know that they might actually be dying in vain, because only a smattering of people will actually end up living on Mars, IMHO. Mars has a reputation as being a real planet but really it's a barren rock that's not practically habitable. Not excited about living on the Moon? Than likely you won't be excited about living on Mars. There is a good argument to be made that humans should live on Mars if only as insurance against some apocalypse on Earth. IMHO, we'd be better off investing in spinning colonies in space (a.k.a. Ringworld) where it's easier to construct something that provides artificial gravity, sunlight, and radiation shielding via artificial iron cores, perhaps mined from asteroids.
  - Tossrock 14y ago
    Why would you never get to go outside? A pressure suit would be fine. Also, if colonization was an ongoing thing, there'd probably be new colonists to meet in waves.
ericd 14y ago
There are a lot of things that humans can do that robots can't. Adaptability/flexibility/decision-making are the biggest areas in which robots are very deficient. When the RTT is over a year, flexibility of the payload is a pretty big deal. We're also ultimately not just doing this for scientific knowledge, but also knowledge about how to best become an interplanetary species, and those kinds of questions are usually best answered with humans acting as willing test subjects/participants.
robbiep 14y ago
The foetus basically develops in a zero g environment anyway- being suspended in liquid- its on the adult that the major effects would occur. And I would put my money on the body adapting very well to a reduced gravity environment if it was born into it. I have no proof for this apart from the adaptability of genetics and development. .... I want us to go to mars. I want us to become an interplanetary species. I want us to travel to the stars, hollow out asteroids, wack nuclear engines on them, and get them up to relativistic speeds. Because if we don't, what is the point of.... All of this? Anyway I'm a dreamer, but I'm also a scientist, and I suppose the two go together fairly often.
- stygianguest 14y ago
  Being suspended in a liquid and zero-g are not at all the same thing. Gravity still pulls, e.g., you will still feel what is up and down. Experiments with rats indicate that zero-g is not a good environment to have babies, but also that it is possible. In any case we could just create artificial gravity. My best hope for humanity is transhuman: to adapt ourselves to our environment. Think the ousters in Hyperion.

by codex 14y ago

iandanforth 14y ago

Have you ready the Red / Green / Blue mars trilogy? It might change your mind. Also, not that it's possible, but why would you want to increase martian gravity? 1/3G would be awesome for sport.

jpxxx 14y ago
I loved those books to death, but the parent is right. Mars is a rustier version of the moon with slightly better scenery. Imagine a life where you as a native Martian never get to go outside, never get to feel fresh air, never get to meet a stranger, never get to storm off, never get the chance to live truly alone, never get to punch a wall, and never get a chance to see another world. No streams, no swimming, no oceans, no forests, nothing. The footprints you make will still be there a hundred million years later. Mars is a one-way trip to a terribly cold and lonely place.
- waterlesscloud 14y ago
  Sign me up. It's Mars. I think the disconnect here is that there are in fact people who have considered such things and still want to go. It's the pioneer spirit. Hardship is part of the appeal.
  - codex 14y ago
    Absolutely. I really admire the human spirit and how it's gotten us so far, so fast. People will absolutely be willing to sacrifice their lives for Mars, and some people will go to Mars not expecting to die, but will anyway. However, I think these people should know that they might actually be dying in vain, because only a smattering of people will actually end up living on Mars, IMHO. Mars has a reputation as being a real planet but really it's a barren rock that's not practically habitable. Not excited about living on the Moon? Than likely you won't be excited about living on Mars. There is a good argument to be made that humans should live on Mars if only as insurance against some apocalypse on Earth. IMHO, we'd be better off investing in spinning colonies in space (a.k.a. Ringworld) where it's easier to construct something that provides artificial gravity, sunlight, and radiation shielding via artificial iron cores, perhaps mined from asteroids.
- Tossrock 14y ago
  Why would you never get to go outside? A pressure suit would be fine. Also, if colonization was an ongoing thing, there'd probably be new colonists to meet in waves.

ericd 14y ago

There are a lot of things that humans can do that robots can't. Adaptability/flexibility/decision-making are the biggest areas in which robots are very deficient. When the RTT is over a year, flexibility of the payload is a pretty big deal. We're also ultimately not just doing this for scientific knowledge, but also knowledge about how to best become an interplanetary species, and those kinds of questions are usually best answered with humans acting as willing test subjects/participants.

robbiep 14y ago

The foetus basically develops in a zero g environment anyway- being suspended in liquid- its on the adult that the major effects would occur. And I would put my money on the body adapting very well to a reduced gravity environment if it was born into it. I have no proof for this apart from the adaptability of genetics and development. .... I want us to go to mars. I want us to become an interplanetary species. I want us to travel to the stars, hollow out asteroids, wack nuclear engines on them, and get them up to relativistic speeds. Because if we don't, what is the point of.... All of this? Anyway I'm a dreamer, but I'm also a scientist, and I suppose the two go together fairly often.

stygianguest 14y ago
Being suspended in a liquid and zero-g are not at all the same thing. Gravity still pulls, e.g., you will still feel what is up and down. Experiments with rats indicate that zero-g is not a good environment to have babies, but also that it is possible. In any case we could just create artificial gravity. My best hope for humanity is transhuman: to adapt ourselves to our environment. Think the ousters in Hyperion.