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I think it's telling that for a guy who spent years debating and publicly speaking on highly charged topics that those are the worst the media has been able to

I think it's telling that for a guy who spent years debating and publicly speaking on highly charged topics that those are the worst the media has been able to drag up, and all taken completely out of context. For this to be the sort of comments that somebody wants to murder over, they seriously need to take a breath outside their echo chambers every once in a while. For instance, due to said echo chambers you probably think the "If you’re a WNBA, pot-smoking, Black lesbian, do you get treated better than a United States marine?" is an edgelord hypothetical. In reality, it's referencing a real situation. The Biden administration turned the world upside down to try to get Britney Griner, a "WNBA, pot-smoking, black lesbian" released from Russia after she was arrested for bringing marijuana into the country. We ended up trading Viktor Bout, an international arms dealer who has since become a member of Russia's parliament, for her. At the same time we left Paul Whelan, a US Marine who was arrested in Russia for allegedly spying many years ago, just rotting away. He was eventually released in a multi-prisoner exchange after Trump took office. People spoke of 'rage' regularly in this thread. Can you imagine how actions like this make people feel? Yet somehow there is far more self control from the segment of society negatively affected by these sort of things.

mapontosevenths 1y ago
>Can you imagine how actions like this make people feel? Yet somehow there is far more self control from the segment of society negatively affected by these sort of things. I don't need to imagine. 80% of domestic terrorism is perpetrated by the right, They certainly aren't quiet about their grievances, even when the grievances are imaginary. There were numbers published about this until Trump ordered them taken down. Regarding the Griner thing, it's telling that when the right decided to compare two humans value the first thing the went to were her gender, race, and sexual orientation wasn't it? Personally I'd have stuck with her job, which was the bit that actually mattered. Instead, they made it about identity politics in order to spread rage.
- mapontosevenths 1y ago
  To be clear, I'm saying that Biden fought for Griner because she was famous, not because she enjoyed cannabis and liked the ladies or whatever it is Kirk seems to think. Spies aren't famous by definition. It's reasonable to disagree with Bidens choice, but it's rage bait to make it about her skin color and toilet-part preferences. That's what Kirk did for a living though.
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  - somenameforme 1y ago
    Calling a WNBA player famous is very arguable, but I want to take a more fundamental approach to this. I really like Kirk's style of simply asking questions that make people accept their own views. There are two reasons to this - the first is because you may not even realize what you believe, and the second part is because my assumptions about what you believe may simply be wrong. Do you approve of Biden doing everything he could, including ultimately trading one of the most well known arm's dealers alive (and the person who Lord of War was based on), for her? Would you approve if the same was done for William Elliott Whitmore, in the case where he was busted bringing drugs into Russia? For context he's a random celebrity (excellent musician), mostly the equal but opposite of Griner, but certainly at least as famous. [1] - https://www.wnba.com/news/wnba-delivers-most-watched-regular-season-in-14-years-and-shatters-fan-engagement-and-on-court-records https://www.wnba.com/news/wnba-delivers-most-watched-regular...
    - mapontosevenths 1y ago
      > Do you approve of Biden doing everything he could, including ultimately trading one of the most well known arm's dealers alive (and the person who Lord of War was based on), for her? Mostly I dont care at all. It's one of a thousand tiny decisions every world leader makes every day that would have been on page 15 of the newspaper 25 years ago. However, I can see why you would disapprove. It's reasonable to disagree with politicians, unless you're doing it because you're some kind of bigot. Now explain why Griners genital preference is relevant if the point wasn't to enrage people and imply that a black lesbians life is worth less than a hetero mans. Again, he was comparing people and these were the attributes he chose as important qualifiers. > Calling a WNBA player famous is very arguable Is it your stance that actual spies are more widely known than WNBA players? I mean, that's a hilarious burn towards the WNBA, but it's literally not true. It's only anecdata, but i knew more about Griner than the other person. Still do. It's also weird that you focus on this one person as if they were the only possible alternative to Griner. They weren't. That's just the one the right trotted out because it was the only one anybody had ever heard of at all. Both sides were playing politics with lives, and it was gross. It was worse that Kirk made it about how black and gay Griner was. He did it to get views and it worked, but it had a cost. >William Elliott Whitmore Frankly, I also wouldn't care about whoever he is unless someone framed it to be a comparison between a black, gay, pot smoker and a 'normal' person just to piss me off. Identity politics are evil.
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
> those are the worst the media has been able to drag up, and all taken completely out of context In what context is it okay to say this? > Reject feminism. Submit to your husband, Taylor. You’re not in charge. ---- > you probably think the "If you’re a WNBA, pot-smoking, Black lesbian, do you get treated better than a United States marine?" is an edgelord hypothetical This is a strawman. They think pointing out that someone is a "WNBA, pot-smoking, black lesbian" is hateful and unnecessary. The statement is otherwise implying that a pot smoker should be denigrated, and a WNBA player should be denigrated, and a black person should be denigrated, and a lesbian should be denigrated in a way that a United States Marine should not be denigrated.
- somenameforme 1y ago
  No, he's offering a vivid illustration of how efforts to combat racism can end up overtly racist themselves. Take the exact situation and simply reverse it. We have a highly qualified and upstanding black marine (make them a lesbian if you fancy) imprisoned in Russia for years for "spying." And the government just kind of shrugs. Then along comes a this dope headed white guy athlete who gets arrested for unquestionably bringing drugs into the country. And suddenly the entire government apparatus kicks into action to get him out, to the point of offering who is perhaps our single highest value Russian prisoner, an international arms dealer, in exchange for him - all the while continuing to just shrug at the black guy (or gal) left lingering in prison. You would obviously find this sort of behavior repulsive, wouldn't you? I mean I certainly would - I think anybody would. Yet when you flip the script and change the races suddenly there's this segment of society that's like 'Yeah, this is okay.' No, it's not okay. His reason for opposing this action is not because of her race, but mostly the only reason some people found it acceptable was because of her race - so it became a relevant component of the story.
  - mapontosevenths 1y ago
    The spy wasn't famous. Griner was. It had nothing to do with the false dichotomy you painted. Kirk is the one that turned it into identity politics.

mapontosevenths 1y ago

>Can you imagine how actions like this make people feel? Yet somehow there is far more self control from the segment of society negatively affected by these sort of things. I don't need to imagine. 80% of domestic terrorism is perpetrated by the right, They certainly aren't quiet about their grievances, even when the grievances are imaginary. There were numbers published about this until Trump ordered them taken down. Regarding the Griner thing, it's telling that when the right decided to compare two humans value the first thing the went to were her gender, race, and sexual orientation wasn't it? Personally I'd have stuck with her job, which was the bit that actually mattered. Instead, they made it about identity politics in order to spread rage.

mapontosevenths 1y ago
To be clear, I'm saying that Biden fought for Griner because she was famous, not because she enjoyed cannabis and liked the ladies or whatever it is Kirk seems to think. Spies aren't famous by definition. It's reasonable to disagree with Bidens choice, but it's rage bait to make it about her skin color and toilet-part preferences. That's what Kirk did for a living though.
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- somenameforme 1y ago
  Calling a WNBA player famous is very arguable, but I want to take a more fundamental approach to this. I really like Kirk's style of simply asking questions that make people accept their own views. There are two reasons to this - the first is because you may not even realize what you believe, and the second part is because my assumptions about what you believe may simply be wrong. Do you approve of Biden doing everything he could, including ultimately trading one of the most well known arm's dealers alive (and the person who Lord of War was based on), for her? Would you approve if the same was done for William Elliott Whitmore, in the case where he was busted bringing drugs into Russia? For context he's a random celebrity (excellent musician), mostly the equal but opposite of Griner, but certainly at least as famous. [1] - https://www.wnba.com/news/wnba-delivers-most-watched-regular-season-in-14-years-and-shatters-fan-engagement-and-on-court-records https://www.wnba.com/news/wnba-delivers-most-watched-regular...
  - mapontosevenths 1y ago
    > Do you approve of Biden doing everything he could, including ultimately trading one of the most well known arm's dealers alive (and the person who Lord of War was based on), for her? Mostly I dont care at all. It's one of a thousand tiny decisions every world leader makes every day that would have been on page 15 of the newspaper 25 years ago. However, I can see why you would disapprove. It's reasonable to disagree with politicians, unless you're doing it because you're some kind of bigot. Now explain why Griners genital preference is relevant if the point wasn't to enrage people and imply that a black lesbians life is worth less than a hetero mans. Again, he was comparing people and these were the attributes he chose as important qualifiers. > Calling a WNBA player famous is very arguable Is it your stance that actual spies are more widely known than WNBA players? I mean, that's a hilarious burn towards the WNBA, but it's literally not true. It's only anecdata, but i knew more about Griner than the other person. Still do. It's also weird that you focus on this one person as if they were the only possible alternative to Griner. They weren't. That's just the one the right trotted out because it was the only one anybody had ever heard of at all. Both sides were playing politics with lives, and it was gross. It was worse that Kirk made it about how black and gay Griner was. He did it to get views and it worked, but it had a cost. >William Elliott Whitmore Frankly, I also wouldn't care about whoever he is unless someone framed it to be a comparison between a black, gay, pot smoker and a 'normal' person just to piss me off. Identity politics are evil.

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago

> those are the worst the media has been able to drag up, and all taken completely out of context In what context is it okay to say this? > Reject feminism. Submit to your husband, Taylor. You’re not in charge. ---- > you probably think the "If you’re a WNBA, pot-smoking, Black lesbian, do you get treated better than a United States marine?" is an edgelord hypothetical This is a strawman. They think pointing out that someone is a "WNBA, pot-smoking, black lesbian" is hateful and unnecessary. The statement is otherwise implying that a pot smoker should be denigrated, and a WNBA player should be denigrated, and a black person should be denigrated, and a lesbian should be denigrated in a way that a United States Marine should not be denigrated.

somenameforme 1y ago
No, he's offering a vivid illustration of how efforts to combat racism can end up overtly racist themselves. Take the exact situation and simply reverse it. We have a highly qualified and upstanding black marine (make them a lesbian if you fancy) imprisoned in Russia for years for "spying." And the government just kind of shrugs. Then along comes a this dope headed white guy athlete who gets arrested for unquestionably bringing drugs into the country. And suddenly the entire government apparatus kicks into action to get him out, to the point of offering who is perhaps our single highest value Russian prisoner, an international arms dealer, in exchange for him - all the while continuing to just shrug at the black guy (or gal) left lingering in prison. You would obviously find this sort of behavior repulsive, wouldn't you? I mean I certainly would - I think anybody would. Yet when you flip the script and change the races suddenly there's this segment of society that's like 'Yeah, this is okay.' No, it's not okay. His reason for opposing this action is not because of her race, but mostly the only reason some people found it acceptable was because of her race - so it became a relevant component of the story.
- mapontosevenths 1y ago
  The spy wasn't famous. Griner was. It had nothing to do with the false dichotomy you painted. Kirk is the one that turned it into identity politics.