5 ms·

Imagine that you're in charge of a small/medium sized business , stuck on Windows XP and some old email system. You've just persuaded the managers that "The Clo

by omh 14y ago

Imagine that you're in charge of a small/medium sized business , stuck on Windows XP and some old email system. You've just persuaded the managers that "The Cloud" isn't so bad, and they've migrated everything over to Google Apps. Now Google have just given you 8 weeks notice about support for IE8. Unlike traditional software, after this date you're screwed - you can't just not upgrade, you're actually cut off from the software you were planning on using. Now, you can probably install Chrome or Firefox. If you're lucky, that won't cause any problems elsewhere. But what happens next time? If Google decide that they don't want to support any client on XP, or perhaps the iPhone? What do you do then? When this starts happening over the next couple of years we'll start seeing a backlash against the current trend towards the cloud.

jamesaguilar 14y ago
Tough nails, IMO. Google probably ran these numbers and feels they can afford to lose the few customers they have in this situation. That someone can come up with a sob story that MIGHT happen because of some deprecation doesn't mean there's a case for supporting old browsers.
NameNickHN 14y ago
Where should installing Firefox or Chrome cause problems?
- hmahncke 14y ago
  Sadly, lots of places.
  - NameNickHN 14y ago
    This is just FUD. What places?
    - hmahncke 14y ago
      I didn't mean that to sound like FUD. I work with a number of insurance companies that are on XP/IE7; with a Firefox install requiring approval from a large IT department.
- omh 14y ago
  Several of my users have business-critical websites that only work in Internet Explorer. I can set up shortcuts so that Firefox is used for some sites and IE for others, but that can get confusing. Also, both Firefox and Chrome are extremely lacking in options for managing user settings. Things that can be set with a group policy for IE require manual scripting for Firefox.
  - jonknee 14y ago
    Google isn't ending support for IE, just IE 8. If you're on XP and can't get a newer IE you can certainly use another browser. The number of people locked in IE and XP and are completely cloud based is probably very small.
  - r00fus 14y ago
    Does IETab or Chrome Frame not work for these deployments?
mbrubeck 14y ago
This isn't 8 weeks notice. It's a reminder about a policy that was announced fifteen months ago. Administrators have had plenty of time to migrate away from Google Apps or figure out how to deploy newer browsers on time. http://googleenterprise.blogspot.com/2011/06/our-plans-to-support-modern-browsers.html http://googleenterprise.blogspot.com/2011/06/our-plans-to-su... Users of unsupported browsers aren't locked out; they just see a message telling them to upgrade, and some functionality might eventually degrade. Degraded functionality is documented at: http://support.google.com/a/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=33864 http://support.google.com/a/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=3...
- omh 14y ago
  My understanding is that the old policy included support for IE8. This new update removes that. This is important because IE8 is, in practice, the latest version of IE for many corporate users. It's also fully supported by Microsoft. We're not taking about Windows 2000 or IE6 here.
  - cstejerean 14y ago
    Sure, back then it included IE8, but the announcement specifically stated "Beginning August 1st, we’ll support the current and prior major release...", and with IE10 coming out, IE8 is no longer included in that category. When IE11 comes out you can expect Google will also drop support for IE9 and so on.
    - omh 14y ago
      Ah yes, fair enough. Part of the problem here is Microsoft's limit of IE9+ not running on XP. This is either a sensible technical requirement or a deliberate push away from XP, depending on your perspective.
      - yuhong 14y ago
        Yea, in general, MS do not release new versions of IE for a Windows version in extended support, which for XP happened just after IE8 release in April 2009.
rjbond3rd 14y ago
As a recovering web dev, I am absolutely thrilled to see older browsers aggressively cut off from support :) But for the hypothetical company stuck on XP, it seems (to me) contradictory that they would migrate to the cloud but not to a modern browser/OS. Still, I'm sure there are some out there.
icelancer 14y ago
Too goddamned bad. If you're stuck on WinXP / IE8 and some old email system, stick with appropriately old shit. No one cares about these people.
- onetimeuse001 14y ago
  Suffering from hypothermia? Many are enterprise users, and this can mean a strike against Google Apps. Many of them stick with XP because it works great for their purpose and many applications only work with IE. Like it or not, Microsoft wins a lot of points for supporting older versions for a decade plus. They might lose a few bucks on a new Windows license but make it back on reputation and other enterprise tools.
  - lysol 14y ago
    A company still using an operating system released 10 years ago probably sees little merit in migrating to hosted email, calendars, etc. They most likely have an old Exchange system that they are maintaining alongside those XP workstations. I doubt this affects many organizations.
    - Silhouette 14y ago
      Windows XP might have been available for a decade, but you have to consider that Vista flopped and Windows 7 only arrived around 3 years ago. That means large numbers of organisations were still installing Windows XP as their standard desktop around 3 years ago, and possibly even more recently than that since they wouldn't necessarily have evaluated Windows 7 and set up to migrate to it from day 1. Moreover, the days of upgrading hardware every 2-3 years are gone, at least in typical office environments that aren't really pushing the performance limits of a typical office PC any more. In other words, for large organisations that keep relatively up-to-date, it's still entirely possible that they have a lot of WinXP machines still around today, even if their newer machines are on Windows 7 now.
  - tomjen3 14y ago
    It doesn't matter that they are enterprise users. Enterprises have held back the state of the art for decades. The fact that google has to drag them into the recent past and hear this much screaming is only an indication of how backwards they are. The world is changeing and the enterprises will have to adapt.
thezilch 14y ago
Then roll out http://www.google.com/chromeframe http://www.google.com/chromeframe.

by omh 14y ago

jamesaguilar 14y ago

Tough nails, IMO. Google probably ran these numbers and feels they can afford to lose the few customers they have in this situation. That someone can come up with a sob story that MIGHT happen because of some deprecation doesn't mean there's a case for supporting old browsers.

NameNickHN 14y ago

Where should installing Firefox or Chrome cause problems?

hmahncke 14y ago
Sadly, lots of places.
- NameNickHN 14y ago
  This is just FUD. What places?
  - hmahncke 14y ago
    I didn't mean that to sound like FUD. I work with a number of insurance companies that are on XP/IE7; with a Firefox install requiring approval from a large IT department.
omh 14y ago
Several of my users have business-critical websites that only work in Internet Explorer. I can set up shortcuts so that Firefox is used for some sites and IE for others, but that can get confusing. Also, both Firefox and Chrome are extremely lacking in options for managing user settings. Things that can be set with a group policy for IE require manual scripting for Firefox.
- jonknee 14y ago
  Google isn't ending support for IE, just IE 8. If you're on XP and can't get a newer IE you can certainly use another browser. The number of people locked in IE and XP and are completely cloud based is probably very small.
- r00fus 14y ago
  Does IETab or Chrome Frame not work for these deployments?

mbrubeck 14y ago

This isn't 8 weeks notice. It's a reminder about a policy that was announced fifteen months ago. Administrators have had plenty of time to migrate away from Google Apps or figure out how to deploy newer browsers on time. http://googleenterprise.blogspot.com/2011/06/our-plans-to-support-modern-browsers.html http://googleenterprise.blogspot.com/2011/06/our-plans-to-su... Users of unsupported browsers aren't locked out; they just see a message telling them to upgrade, and some functionality might eventually degrade. Degraded functionality is documented at: http://support.google.com/a/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=33864 http://support.google.com/a/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=3...

omh 14y ago
My understanding is that the old policy included support for IE8. This new update removes that. This is important because IE8 is, in practice, the latest version of IE for many corporate users. It's also fully supported by Microsoft. We're not taking about Windows 2000 or IE6 here.
- cstejerean 14y ago
  Sure, back then it included IE8, but the announcement specifically stated "Beginning August 1st, we’ll support the current and prior major release...", and with IE10 coming out, IE8 is no longer included in that category. When IE11 comes out you can expect Google will also drop support for IE9 and so on.
  - omh 14y ago
    Ah yes, fair enough. Part of the problem here is Microsoft's limit of IE9+ not running on XP. This is either a sensible technical requirement or a deliberate push away from XP, depending on your perspective.
    - yuhong 14y ago
      Yea, in general, MS do not release new versions of IE for a Windows version in extended support, which for XP happened just after IE8 release in April 2009.

rjbond3rd 14y ago

As a recovering web dev, I am absolutely thrilled to see older browsers aggressively cut off from support :) But for the hypothetical company stuck on XP, it seems (to me) contradictory that they would migrate to the cloud but not to a modern browser/OS. Still, I'm sure there are some out there.

icelancer 14y ago

Too goddamned bad. If you're stuck on WinXP / IE8 and some old email system, stick with appropriately old shit. No one cares about these people.

onetimeuse001 14y ago
Suffering from hypothermia? Many are enterprise users, and this can mean a strike against Google Apps. Many of them stick with XP because it works great for their purpose and many applications only work with IE. Like it or not, Microsoft wins a lot of points for supporting older versions for a decade plus. They might lose a few bucks on a new Windows license but make it back on reputation and other enterprise tools.
- lysol 14y ago
  A company still using an operating system released 10 years ago probably sees little merit in migrating to hosted email, calendars, etc. They most likely have an old Exchange system that they are maintaining alongside those XP workstations. I doubt this affects many organizations.
  - Silhouette 14y ago
    Windows XP might have been available for a decade, but you have to consider that Vista flopped and Windows 7 only arrived around 3 years ago. That means large numbers of organisations were still installing Windows XP as their standard desktop around 3 years ago, and possibly even more recently than that since they wouldn't necessarily have evaluated Windows 7 and set up to migrate to it from day 1. Moreover, the days of upgrading hardware every 2-3 years are gone, at least in typical office environments that aren't really pushing the performance limits of a typical office PC any more. In other words, for large organisations that keep relatively up-to-date, it's still entirely possible that they have a lot of WinXP machines still around today, even if their newer machines are on Windows 7 now.
- tomjen3 14y ago
  It doesn't matter that they are enterprise users. Enterprises have held back the state of the art for decades. The fact that google has to drag them into the recent past and hear this much screaming is only an indication of how backwards they are. The world is changeing and the enterprises will have to adapt.

thezilch 14y ago

Then roll out http://www.google.com/chromeframe http://www.google.com/chromeframe.