4 ms·

> who would actually trust China in any way shape or form as an alternative? Most of the Asian countries (except South Korea, Japan and Taiwan) and African cou

> who would actually trust China in any way shape or form as an alternative? Most of the Asian countries (except South Korea, Japan and Taiwan) and African countries. They’re already getting tons of investments and loans from China.

atonse 1y ago
Getting investments isn’t the same as adopting a currency as a reserve for its stability.
- mertbio 1y ago
  The US dollar lost ~10% of its value this year. It is expected to lose another 10%. Which stability are we talking about? Also, here you can see the change in the foreign exchange reserves by currency: https://en.macromicro.me/charts/116488/global-official-foreign-exchange-reserves-by-currency-share https://en.macromicro.me/charts/116488/global-official-forei... US Dollars: 71% -> 58% Chinese Yuan: 0 -> 2%
  - spwa4 1y ago
    As opposed to China, who will probably invade pretty much every Asian country, and the only big unknown is the order. Western China is annexed. Nepal is Annexed. Hong Kong is annexed. Mongolia is 100% under Chinese control. Northwest Pakistan is 95% under Chinese control. Parts of Russia, Afghanistan, Tajikistan and other countries are under Chinese control to a greater or lesser extent, and all those countries have zero hopes of defending against China, and sure as hell can't count on anyone's support. Certainly not their neighbors, or the gulf states, and not the US. The South China sea (including Phillippine, Japanese, Taiwanese territory) is under Chinese control. And the countries' only hope for maintaining independence is the US. China is an empire. It cannot survive except through expansion so betting it will expand is like betting a person will breathe tomorrow. Accepting Chinese currency is like France buying Nazi bonds in 1939 (which France and most European countries did, btw). It seems like, in fact it is, the height of stupidity, but it's amazing what a little bit of promised money can make people do. This is figuratively, and potentially literally, paying for the bullets that will end up lodged in your skull, because the shooter promises 10% return. Which of course, these states will gladly do.
    - TFYS 1y ago
      The list of atrocities and political influence by the US is just as long if not longer. A country under the US sphere of influence is independent only for as long as its interests don't conflict with US interests. Before Trump the US might have continued pretending that its empire is somehow better than a Chinese one, but he threw that mask into the trash and set it on fire.
      - spwa4 1y ago
        Sorry but it just isn't. INDIVIDUAL things the CCP does today dwarf the sum total of the atrocities the US committed over it's entire lifetime. The situation in Xinjang has more victims yearly than every event in the US since it's founding, and it's not even close to the only mass-atrocity the CCP is engaged in. Tibet. Mongolia. Chinese religious movements. Ah you're a communist idealist who "won't go into details" (and you'll probably refuse to discuss why almost every attempt at communism ended in a massacring dictatorship ...)
        TFYS 1y ago
        The US supported genocide in Gaza alone is much worse than anything done in Xinjiang. The genocide of native Americans, the bloody coups and corporate abuse in south America, the wars of the middle east with their millions of victims, the war crimes in Vietnam, the bombing of Japan and who knows how many more horrors that the US has been involved in. Do you honestly believe those things combined have less victims than Xinjiang?
        spwa4 1y ago
        Not that your other claims aren't equally ridiculous, but sorry, no. Pretty much everything, in China or elsewhere, is worse than Gaza. Gaza, claimed victims (hamas numbers, rounded up): 65'000 dead. (note that these numbers are ridiculous: for example, did you know, Israel did not kill a single hamas member? Zero. Not a single one) Gaza, claimed victims, IDF numbers: 13'000 dead (a little under half claimed to be hamas members. >80% are fighting age men) (and let's not forget the other difference: in the victims of Hamas, >85% are civilians. And that's assuming that everyone, on duty or on holiday, working even indirectly for the military counts as a soldier, including locksmiths and cleaning staff, otherwise it's easily over 90%) So let's say it's somewhere between those two numbers. But every conflict in the area is bigger than the biggest numbers in Gaza, easily. Syria, right next door, death toll: 656'000 dead. Sudan, not that far from Gaza, with hamas' parent organisation the perpetrators: 300'000 dead. Lebanon (note: conflict started by the PA, against Christians), death toll: at least 150'000 dead. IS/Daesh (note: conflict started by Palestinians), death toll: 306'000. Xinjang: 1.2 million imprisoned, 10% dead, per year, according to UN. Obviously that would make it more than double the claimed Gaza death toll PER YEAR (so that would make it 4x as big during the Gaza conflict, except it's been going on for far longer than the Gaza war). As for official figues: https://id.china-embassy.gov.cn/eng/sgdt/202206/t20220622_10707637.htm https://id.china-embassy.gov.cn/eng/sgdt/202206/t20220622_10...
  - slaw 1y ago
    Where did you get info about losing another 10%?
    - mertbio 1y ago
      "Morgan Stanley Research estimates the U.S. currency could lose another 10% by the end of 2026.": https://www.morganstanley.com/insights/articles/us-dollar-declines https://www.morganstanley.com/insights/articles/us-dollar-de...
arisAlexis 1y ago
Like Philippines that are almost at war with China? Or India that have regular skirmishes with them? Who exactly in Asia? Is Shri Lanka important for world economy?

atonse 1y ago

Getting investments isn’t the same as adopting a currency as a reserve for its stability.

mertbio 1y ago
The US dollar lost ~10% of its value this year. It is expected to lose another 10%. Which stability are we talking about? Also, here you can see the change in the foreign exchange reserves by currency: https://en.macromicro.me/charts/116488/global-official-foreign-exchange-reserves-by-currency-share https://en.macromicro.me/charts/116488/global-official-forei... US Dollars: 71% -> 58% Chinese Yuan: 0 -> 2%
- spwa4 1y ago
  As opposed to China, who will probably invade pretty much every Asian country, and the only big unknown is the order. Western China is annexed. Nepal is Annexed. Hong Kong is annexed. Mongolia is 100% under Chinese control. Northwest Pakistan is 95% under Chinese control. Parts of Russia, Afghanistan, Tajikistan and other countries are under Chinese control to a greater or lesser extent, and all those countries have zero hopes of defending against China, and sure as hell can't count on anyone's support. Certainly not their neighbors, or the gulf states, and not the US. The South China sea (including Phillippine, Japanese, Taiwanese territory) is under Chinese control. And the countries' only hope for maintaining independence is the US. China is an empire. It cannot survive except through expansion so betting it will expand is like betting a person will breathe tomorrow. Accepting Chinese currency is like France buying Nazi bonds in 1939 (which France and most European countries did, btw). It seems like, in fact it is, the height of stupidity, but it's amazing what a little bit of promised money can make people do. This is figuratively, and potentially literally, paying for the bullets that will end up lodged in your skull, because the shooter promises 10% return. Which of course, these states will gladly do.
  - TFYS 1y ago
    The list of atrocities and political influence by the US is just as long if not longer. A country under the US sphere of influence is independent only for as long as its interests don't conflict with US interests. Before Trump the US might have continued pretending that its empire is somehow better than a Chinese one, but he threw that mask into the trash and set it on fire.
    - spwa4 1y ago
      Sorry but it just isn't. INDIVIDUAL things the CCP does today dwarf the sum total of the atrocities the US committed over it's entire lifetime. The situation in Xinjang has more victims yearly than every event in the US since it's founding, and it's not even close to the only mass-atrocity the CCP is engaged in. Tibet. Mongolia. Chinese religious movements. Ah you're a communist idealist who "won't go into details" (and you'll probably refuse to discuss why almost every attempt at communism ended in a massacring dictatorship ...)
      - TFYS 1y ago
        The US supported genocide in Gaza alone is much worse than anything done in Xinjiang. The genocide of native Americans, the bloody coups and corporate abuse in south America, the wars of the middle east with their millions of victims, the war crimes in Vietnam, the bombing of Japan and who knows how many more horrors that the US has been involved in. Do you honestly believe those things combined have less victims than Xinjiang?
        spwa4 1y ago
        Not that your other claims aren't equally ridiculous, but sorry, no. Pretty much everything, in China or elsewhere, is worse than Gaza. Gaza, claimed victims (hamas numbers, rounded up): 65'000 dead. (note that these numbers are ridiculous: for example, did you know, Israel did not kill a single hamas member? Zero. Not a single one) Gaza, claimed victims, IDF numbers: 13'000 dead (a little under half claimed to be hamas members. >80% are fighting age men) (and let's not forget the other difference: in the victims of Hamas, >85% are civilians. And that's assuming that everyone, on duty or on holiday, working even indirectly for the military counts as a soldier, including locksmiths and cleaning staff, otherwise it's easily over 90%) So let's say it's somewhere between those two numbers. But every conflict in the area is bigger than the biggest numbers in Gaza, easily. Syria, right next door, death toll: 656'000 dead. Sudan, not that far from Gaza, with hamas' parent organisation the perpetrators: 300'000 dead. Lebanon (note: conflict started by the PA, against Christians), death toll: at least 150'000 dead. IS/Daesh (note: conflict started by Palestinians), death toll: 306'000. Xinjang: 1.2 million imprisoned, 10% dead, per year, according to UN. Obviously that would make it more than double the claimed Gaza death toll PER YEAR (so that would make it 4x as big during the Gaza conflict, except it's been going on for far longer than the Gaza war). As for official figues: https://id.china-embassy.gov.cn/eng/sgdt/202206/t20220622_10707637.htm https://id.china-embassy.gov.cn/eng/sgdt/202206/t20220622_10...
- slaw 1y ago
  Where did you get info about losing another 10%?
  - mertbio 1y ago
    "Morgan Stanley Research estimates the U.S. currency could lose another 10% by the end of 2026.": https://www.morganstanley.com/insights/articles/us-dollar-declines https://www.morganstanley.com/insights/articles/us-dollar-de...

arisAlexis 1y ago

Like Philippines that are almost at war with China? Or India that have regular skirmishes with them? Who exactly in Asia? Is Shri Lanka important for world economy?