3 ms·

Why would moving to an even more authoritarian country be good advice? What?

wrs 1y ago
Because if you want to get a good science education, you need to be in a place that supports science and education. The administration has disrupted the system that made the US the world scientific leader, a status it’s had only since the mid-20th century, which it achieved through concerted government and social investment. Which country is doing that right now? In 1930, if you wanted access to the great science universities and literature, you learned German. Things can change. Quickly.
XorNot 1y ago
The point is you'll be doing business in high technology with China, not America. Helps to speak the language when you negotiate.
- alephnerd 1y ago
  I disagree with that. Instead we are seeing increased siloing of scientific domains. The EU is cracking down on EU-Chinese research cooperation (as recent arrests and deportations in France have shown), India still has a de facto freeze on Chinese R&D and China is still enforcing export controls on IP to India, and South Korea and Japan are still controlling any IP generated from their industrial research fusion programs. We're instead seeing at least 6-7 different scientific and capital ecosystems forming, and with collaboration being tightly controlled by governments.
  - wmf 1y ago
    Assuming that's true... if the largest silo is China I can imagine plenty of people wanting to "defect" to China for their own advancement. But you'll have to speak Chinese.
    - alephnerd 1y ago
      Most countries and transnational organizations continue to use English as the primary lingua franca, even despite China becoming a major R&D hub. The EU continues to use English as the lingua franca for scientific communication due to the diversity within the EU. On the India side, research done as part of the pact with Japan [0], Taiwan [1], South Korea [2], the EU [3], and the US [4] is done in English. And on the Vietnam side (based on my SO's experience), all of her ASEAN-Japan and ASEAN-SK collaboration was done in English as well. [0] - https://www.jst.go.jp/inter/english/project/country/india.html https://www.jst.go.jp/inter/english/project/country/india.ht... [1] - https://www.iitrpr.ac.in/indo-taiwan/ https://www.iitrpr.ac.in/indo-taiwan/ [2] - https://www.ikst.res.in/ikst-en/index.do https://www.ikst.res.in/ikst-en/index.do [3] - https://research-and-innovation.ec.europa.eu/news/all-research-and-innovation-news/evaluation-eu-india-science-technology-agreement-highlights-achievements-and-showcases-future-2025-02-25_en https://research-and-innovation.ec.europa.eu/news/all-resear... [4] - https://carnegieendowment.org/research/2024/10/the-us-india-initiative-on-critical-and-emerging-technology-icet-from-2022-to-2025-assessment-learnings-and-the-way-forward?lang=en https://carnegieendowment.org/research/2024/10/the-us-india-...
- School-Cotton 1y ago
  America isn’t the only place that speaks English. It’s the global standard language. When a Japanese and a Chinese person negotiate they are already using English.
  - jfaat 1y ago
    That is a wild claim
    - School-Cotton 1y ago
      Which part?
      - jfaat 1y ago
        "When a Japanese and a Chinese person negotiate they are already using English"
        School-Cotton 1y ago
        What language do you think they use? All Japanese people learn English at school; few learn Chinese as you can verify by reading about the Japanese school system from various sources including Wikipedia. Similarly in China, English is the only mandatory foreign language taught at school.
        jfaat 1y ago
        > What language do you think they use? Frequently, Chinese or Japanese. For example companies in these countries employ translators. Are you suggesting they rely on primary school-level English to negotiate?
        const_cast 1y ago
        Other countries have competent language programs, the US is pretty unique in having unbelievably shit education in foreign languages. That is to say, I would not be surprised if, in China, people are quiet fluent in English.
- phamtrongthang 1y ago
  I find this quite true in my field. Recently I attended the biggest conference in computer vision (CVPR), and almost half the time I was there, I heard Chinese instead of English. Most people I met joked that we should learn Mandarin if we want to continue doing AI research now.
contrarian1234 1y ago
B/c the next Carnegie Mellon will be there

wrs 1y ago

Because if you want to get a good science education, you need to be in a place that supports science and education. The administration has disrupted the system that made the US the world scientific leader, a status it’s had only since the mid-20th century, which it achieved through concerted government and social investment. Which country is doing that right now? In 1930, if you wanted access to the great science universities and literature, you learned German. Things can change. Quickly.

XorNot 1y ago

The point is you'll be doing business in high technology with China, not America. Helps to speak the language when you negotiate.

alephnerd 1y ago
I disagree with that. Instead we are seeing increased siloing of scientific domains. The EU is cracking down on EU-Chinese research cooperation (as recent arrests and deportations in France have shown), India still has a de facto freeze on Chinese R&D and China is still enforcing export controls on IP to India, and South Korea and Japan are still controlling any IP generated from their industrial research fusion programs. We're instead seeing at least 6-7 different scientific and capital ecosystems forming, and with collaboration being tightly controlled by governments.
- wmf 1y ago
  Assuming that's true... if the largest silo is China I can imagine plenty of people wanting to "defect" to China for their own advancement. But you'll have to speak Chinese.
  - alephnerd 1y ago
    Most countries and transnational organizations continue to use English as the primary lingua franca, even despite China becoming a major R&D hub. The EU continues to use English as the lingua franca for scientific communication due to the diversity within the EU. On the India side, research done as part of the pact with Japan [0], Taiwan [1], South Korea [2], the EU [3], and the US [4] is done in English. And on the Vietnam side (based on my SO's experience), all of her ASEAN-Japan and ASEAN-SK collaboration was done in English as well. [0] - https://www.jst.go.jp/inter/english/project/country/india.html https://www.jst.go.jp/inter/english/project/country/india.ht... [1] - https://www.iitrpr.ac.in/indo-taiwan/ https://www.iitrpr.ac.in/indo-taiwan/ [2] - https://www.ikst.res.in/ikst-en/index.do https://www.ikst.res.in/ikst-en/index.do [3] - https://research-and-innovation.ec.europa.eu/news/all-research-and-innovation-news/evaluation-eu-india-science-technology-agreement-highlights-achievements-and-showcases-future-2025-02-25_en https://research-and-innovation.ec.europa.eu/news/all-resear... [4] - https://carnegieendowment.org/research/2024/10/the-us-india-initiative-on-critical-and-emerging-technology-icet-from-2022-to-2025-assessment-learnings-and-the-way-forward?lang=en https://carnegieendowment.org/research/2024/10/the-us-india-...
School-Cotton 1y ago
America isn’t the only place that speaks English. It’s the global standard language. When a Japanese and a Chinese person negotiate they are already using English.
- jfaat 1y ago
  That is a wild claim
  - School-Cotton 1y ago
    Which part?
    - jfaat 1y ago
      "When a Japanese and a Chinese person negotiate they are already using English"
      - School-Cotton 1y ago
        What language do you think they use? All Japanese people learn English at school; few learn Chinese as you can verify by reading about the Japanese school system from various sources including Wikipedia. Similarly in China, English is the only mandatory foreign language taught at school.
        jfaat 1y ago
        > What language do you think they use? Frequently, Chinese or Japanese. For example companies in these countries employ translators. Are you suggesting they rely on primary school-level English to negotiate?
        const_cast 1y ago
        Other countries have competent language programs, the US is pretty unique in having unbelievably shit education in foreign languages. That is to say, I would not be surprised if, in China, people are quiet fluent in English.
phamtrongthang 1y ago
I find this quite true in my field. Recently I attended the biggest conference in computer vision (CVPR), and almost half the time I was there, I heard Chinese instead of English. Most people I met joked that we should learn Mandarin if we want to continue doing AI research now.

contrarian1234 1y ago

B/c the next Carnegie Mellon will be there