7 ms·

Your last point is the key point. Any organization progressive enough to be using Google Apps for anything is unlikely a locked-down IE8/XP environment. i.e.

by corry 14y ago

Your last point is the key point. Any organization progressive enough to be using Google Apps for anything is unlikely a locked-down IE8/XP environment. i.e. a venn diagram between Google App using orgs and IE8/XP lockdown orgs will have very little overlap.

debacle 14y ago
Google Apps has been around for a while now. Its use is no longer all that 'progressive,' at least in my mind. I've worked with plenty of companies with FoxPro databases and ball mice that are using Google Apps.
- ericcholis 14y ago
  Ah, FoxPro, tugging at my heartstrings there.
EvanAnderson 14y ago
This leaves a goodly number of Windows XP machines at one of my K-12 educational Customers unable to use Google Apps effectively. I suspect many other public schools will be in the same boat. Chrome has design eccentricities that make it interact w/ some Windows management functionality (redirected "Application Data" folders, specifically) in a very suboptimal manner (maintaining 10MB+ of files in each user's redirected AppData folder is a problem on a server hosting 3,000 users' folders). Installing Chrome on the Windows XP machines isn't a slam-dunk. I suspect we'll just have to bite the bullet and use Chrome while, simultaneously, giving up functionality in Windows to do it.
- richbradshaw 14y ago
  I hate to break it to you, but you could in fact update from Windows XP. I know it's hard to imagine. :)
  - ktsmith 14y ago
    My wifes school district just moved everyone to Windows 7. It takes 20 minutes for her computer to start in the morning and about five minutes to shut down in the evening. The computer just barely meets the minimum specifications of Windows 7 and so the district isn't going to upgrade the hardware due to budget constraints. Given tight budgets in schools I would be surprised if Windows 7 upgrades are actually feasible for some of them when Windows XP does everything they need on the hardware they already have.
    - JoshTriplett 14y ago
      How much of that 20 minutes consists of booting Windows, and how much of it consists of running the myriad policies, scripts, and startup software that "enterprise" environments push out to all their systems and run on every boot? Not exactly a fan of Windows, and newer versions often do boot slower due to added bloat, but you can't chalk 20 minutes up to Windows alone.
      - ktsmith 14y ago
        Hard to say, the last time I was there it was about half of the time to get to the login prompt and the other half to get to the desktop.
      - 27182818284 14y ago
        It shouldn't be that bad. I've seen university machines running windows 7 with less than current hardware and a whole bunch of scripts, antivirus, etc, and they still boot and shutdown in a very reasonable amount of times. Definitely sounds like the hardware rather than the myriad of scripts to me. Shrug.
        ktsmith 14y ago
        1.6GHz AMD cpu with 1GB RAM with a 5400RPM 40GB HDD. It's really pathetic.
        14y ago
- ktsmith 14y ago
  Does Chrome Frame pose the same issue?
  - EvanAnderson 14y ago
    Not exactly. It would if we redirected the user's data. Since Chrome Frame isn't a freestanding browser, though, it's really not necessary to redirect the user's data. That's likely what we're going to end up doing, once we fully test it. If Google got SSO to our SAML server working for Chrome Sync this would be a non-issue but, apparently, we're also the only people in the world that want that functionality, too.
- stickfigure 14y ago
  You have a problem consuming an extra ~30GB of space on a server?
  - EvanAnderson 14y ago
    Yeah. 30GB of rather expensive SAS-based storage on a SAN. After having operating levies fail and seeing state funds radically cut we're pinching every penny we can. Every little bit helps. I'd love to use something like ZFS to handle this storage, at which point this wouldn't be an issue, but I have to work under the constraint that various teachers acting as Windows admins need to be able to manage the servers. More money would solve this problem for me. Money aside, it's galling that the developers aren't building for the enterprise deployment case. I WANT to run Chrome _badly_ in corporate environments but it's not engineered for my use-case.
    - nbpoole 14y ago
      It is, the installer you're looking for is just hidden very well. ;-) You can find it by going to "Install Chrome for all user accounts" http://support.google.com/chrome/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=118663 http://support.google.com/chrome/bin/answer.py?hl=en&ans..., which points to "Alternate (offline) Google Chrome installer (Windows)" http://support.google.com/chrome/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=126299 http://support.google.com/chrome/bin/answer.py?hl=en&ans... You want the "Alternate installer for all user accounts" (https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/browser/eula.html?system=true&standalone=1 https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/browser/eula.html?syst...). That will install Chrome in the Program Files directory.
      - johndandison 14y ago
        Or just go directly to http://google.com/chrome?msi=true http://google.com/chrome?msi=true - you can add others too (like extra=devchannel) if you have other options.
    - salmanapk 14y ago
      Sad how many people prefer to argue with their ignorance rather than a quick Google search.
- lallysingh 14y ago
  Firefox?
- phillco 14y ago
  I believe there is a global version you can install that goes to Program Files and not AppData. Should help with your problem. Last I heard, it was in Google Pack.
  - EvanAnderson 14y ago
    We are using this version and having difficulties with it.
- ghshephard 14y ago
  While I respect the budget pressures of K-12, I'm not buying that an extra 10 MBytes/user on student-grade SAN/NAS storage is even measurable, let alone significant. Storage/Bandwidth cost curves have been remarkably consistent on their shifts over the last 20 years. You might want to re-evaluate where you are focussing your energy on optimization.
- justinschuh 14y ago
  Chrome has an MSI system installer that will meet your needs: http://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/business/browser/ http://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/business/browser/ We also have full support for global policies and pretty much any administration features you could need. I'd be happy to point you in the right direction if you have specific questions or difficulties.
  - benjarrell 14y ago
    Policies for Windows, Linux, and Mac: http://www.chromium.org/administrators http://www.chromium.org/administrators
  - EvanAnderson 14y ago
    We're using that installer, and Group Policy. We're redirecting the user's "User Data" folder into their roaming "Application Data". We're finding that Chrome is storing 10MB of DLL files there (gcswf32.dll being the big offender). We're also seeing the same behavior as described in this posting: http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/chrome/xvd0gSJy_MY http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/chrome/xvd0gSJ... Chrome installs a gcswf32.dll file into "Program Files" but it appears to be downloading a new one for each user, stashing it in their user data folder, then failing to load it properly on subsequent sessions because it's stored on a network path.
    - justinschuh 14y ago
      The DLL you're asking about is a component update. In this case, we used it to push an emergency Flash security update. These are stored in the user's profile because the component updater is built on top of the extensions subsystem. However, I expect the enterprise team can investigate segregating some of this from UserDataDir. The thread you referenced should actually be resolved in Chrome 21. That said, it refers to a scenario where parts of the profile are remapped to a network share. It's important to understand that this is not a supported configuration for Windows profiles in general, and is known to break applications other than Chrome. Whereas standard roaming profiles should work fine in all applications, and are the configuration supported by Windows.
- bzbarsky 14y ago
  Are there reason you can't use other browsers that are supported by Google Apps and run on XP? Say Opera, or Firefox?

by corry 14y ago

debacle 14y ago

Google Apps has been around for a while now. Its use is no longer all that 'progressive,' at least in my mind. I've worked with plenty of companies with FoxPro databases and ball mice that are using Google Apps.

ericcholis 14y ago
Ah, FoxPro, tugging at my heartstrings there.

EvanAnderson 14y ago

This leaves a goodly number of Windows XP machines at one of my K-12 educational Customers unable to use Google Apps effectively. I suspect many other public schools will be in the same boat. Chrome has design eccentricities that make it interact w/ some Windows management functionality (redirected "Application Data" folders, specifically) in a very suboptimal manner (maintaining 10MB+ of files in each user's redirected AppData folder is a problem on a server hosting 3,000 users' folders). Installing Chrome on the Windows XP machines isn't a slam-dunk. I suspect we'll just have to bite the bullet and use Chrome while, simultaneously, giving up functionality in Windows to do it.

richbradshaw 14y ago
I hate to break it to you, but you could in fact update from Windows XP. I know it's hard to imagine. :)
- ktsmith 14y ago
  My wifes school district just moved everyone to Windows 7. It takes 20 minutes for her computer to start in the morning and about five minutes to shut down in the evening. The computer just barely meets the minimum specifications of Windows 7 and so the district isn't going to upgrade the hardware due to budget constraints. Given tight budgets in schools I would be surprised if Windows 7 upgrades are actually feasible for some of them when Windows XP does everything they need on the hardware they already have.
  - JoshTriplett 14y ago
    How much of that 20 minutes consists of booting Windows, and how much of it consists of running the myriad policies, scripts, and startup software that "enterprise" environments push out to all their systems and run on every boot? Not exactly a fan of Windows, and newer versions often do boot slower due to added bloat, but you can't chalk 20 minutes up to Windows alone.
    - ktsmith 14y ago
      Hard to say, the last time I was there it was about half of the time to get to the login prompt and the other half to get to the desktop.
    - 27182818284 14y ago
      It shouldn't be that bad. I've seen university machines running windows 7 with less than current hardware and a whole bunch of scripts, antivirus, etc, and they still boot and shutdown in a very reasonable amount of times. Definitely sounds like the hardware rather than the myriad of scripts to me. Shrug.
      - ktsmith 14y ago
        1.6GHz AMD cpu with 1GB RAM with a 5400RPM 40GB HDD. It's really pathetic.
        14y ago
ktsmith 14y ago
Does Chrome Frame pose the same issue?
- EvanAnderson 14y ago
  Not exactly. It would if we redirected the user's data. Since Chrome Frame isn't a freestanding browser, though, it's really not necessary to redirect the user's data. That's likely what we're going to end up doing, once we fully test it. If Google got SSO to our SAML server working for Chrome Sync this would be a non-issue but, apparently, we're also the only people in the world that want that functionality, too.
stickfigure 14y ago
You have a problem consuming an extra ~30GB of space on a server?
- EvanAnderson 14y ago
  Yeah. 30GB of rather expensive SAS-based storage on a SAN. After having operating levies fail and seeing state funds radically cut we're pinching every penny we can. Every little bit helps. I'd love to use something like ZFS to handle this storage, at which point this wouldn't be an issue, but I have to work under the constraint that various teachers acting as Windows admins need to be able to manage the servers. More money would solve this problem for me. Money aside, it's galling that the developers aren't building for the enterprise deployment case. I WANT to run Chrome _badly_ in corporate environments but it's not engineered for my use-case.
  - nbpoole 14y ago
    It is, the installer you're looking for is just hidden very well. ;-) You can find it by going to "Install Chrome for all user accounts" http://support.google.com/chrome/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=118663 http://support.google.com/chrome/bin/answer.py?hl=en&ans..., which points to "Alternate (offline) Google Chrome installer (Windows)" http://support.google.com/chrome/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=126299 http://support.google.com/chrome/bin/answer.py?hl=en&ans... You want the "Alternate installer for all user accounts" (https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/browser/eula.html?system=true&standalone=1 https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/browser/eula.html?syst...). That will install Chrome in the Program Files directory.
    - johndandison 14y ago
      Or just go directly to http://google.com/chrome?msi=true http://google.com/chrome?msi=true - you can add others too (like extra=devchannel) if you have other options.
  - salmanapk 14y ago
    Sad how many people prefer to argue with their ignorance rather than a quick Google search.
lallysingh 14y ago
Firefox?
phillco 14y ago
I believe there is a global version you can install that goes to Program Files and not AppData. Should help with your problem. Last I heard, it was in Google Pack.
- EvanAnderson 14y ago
  We are using this version and having difficulties with it.
ghshephard 14y ago
While I respect the budget pressures of K-12, I'm not buying that an extra 10 MBytes/user on student-grade SAN/NAS storage is even measurable, let alone significant. Storage/Bandwidth cost curves have been remarkably consistent on their shifts over the last 20 years. You might want to re-evaluate where you are focussing your energy on optimization.
justinschuh 14y ago
Chrome has an MSI system installer that will meet your needs: http://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/business/browser/ http://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/business/browser/ We also have full support for global policies and pretty much any administration features you could need. I'd be happy to point you in the right direction if you have specific questions or difficulties.
- benjarrell 14y ago
  Policies for Windows, Linux, and Mac: http://www.chromium.org/administrators http://www.chromium.org/administrators
- EvanAnderson 14y ago
  We're using that installer, and Group Policy. We're redirecting the user's "User Data" folder into their roaming "Application Data". We're finding that Chrome is storing 10MB of DLL files there (gcswf32.dll being the big offender). We're also seeing the same behavior as described in this posting: http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/chrome/xvd0gSJy_MY http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/chrome/xvd0gSJ... Chrome installs a gcswf32.dll file into "Program Files" but it appears to be downloading a new one for each user, stashing it in their user data folder, then failing to load it properly on subsequent sessions because it's stored on a network path.
  - justinschuh 14y ago
    The DLL you're asking about is a component update. In this case, we used it to push an emergency Flash security update. These are stored in the user's profile because the component updater is built on top of the extensions subsystem. However, I expect the enterprise team can investigate segregating some of this from UserDataDir. The thread you referenced should actually be resolved in Chrome 21. That said, it refers to a scenario where parts of the profile are remapped to a network share. It's important to understand that this is not a supported configuration for Windows profiles in general, and is known to break applications other than Chrome. Whereas standard roaming profiles should work fine in all applications, and are the configuration supported by Windows.
bzbarsky 14y ago
Are there reason you can't use other browsers that are supported by Google Apps and run on XP? Say Opera, or Firefox?