6 ms·

OT, but I'm intrigued by their business model. I don't know the history, but currently, the Android app is free, and it says the use of the service is free for

OT, but I'm intrigued by their business model. I don't know the history, but currently, the Android app is free, and it says the use of the service is free for the first year, then will be $0.99 per year after that. Meanwhile, the iOS app is $0.99 straight up. Thoughts: (a) "Free for a year, $1/year after that" seems like an awful long time to wait for a payday, but if it works, and you get lots of free users, I bet you get more conversions in the long run than with a normal free/pro app business model. (b) "Free in one store, paid in the other" is an interesting idea. If you can build up a large userbase of free Android users, and it's an inherently social app, your free Android users will tell their friends on iOS devices to get the app so they can communicate. They probably don't even know it's not free. It's like unintentional affiliate marketing. (c) I realize (b) might not be an intentional choice by the developers, but a necessity due to the App Store perhaps not supporting pricing schemes like the one in (a).

mahyarm 14y ago
I think it comes down to it being harder to make money on the android store and ease of piracy vs ios store. The market share / profit tradeoff ratio on android makes it worth more to be free. On iOS they sometimes make the app free too.
- zachalexander 14y ago
  Tell me more. I wasn't aware app piracy was a major problem in either store.
  - executive 14y ago
    Not in store - Android allows app installs from outside of the store.
  - spartango 14y ago
    App piracy is actually a substantial issue on both stores: On Android, sideloading of apps from unauthorized sources (not the store), and frail DRM makes piracy really easy. The US government has been targeting these sources[1], but as you can imagine, there are many. Some have said that Android app piracy may be up to 60%[2], but I think there's some sample bias in these figures and suspect it's a fair bit lower. On iOS, piracy is a bit more difficult, requiring a jailbreak and then a hack that allows cracked apps. From there, cracked apps can be downloaded from various sources. There are fewer solutions to crack in-app purchases, but recently a few have come into the mainstream[3]. On the whole, Apple's DRM helps, but pirates have found ways around it. [1] http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/22/3259808/android-app-pirate-department-of-justice-seizure http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/22/3259808/android-app-pirate... [2] http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/7/3225154/dead-trigger-dev-interview-piracy-android-ios http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/7/3225154/dead-trigger-dev-in... [3] http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/13/3156875/ios-free-in-app-purchase-hack http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/13/3156875/ios-free-in-app-pu...
    - zachalexander 14y ago
      Thanks. I imagine this varies a lot with app category/demographic. I'm not a gamer, but I've heard that many gamers have a large, ongoing appetite for new games, and perhaps this makes them more sensitive to price. Even a $0.99 price tag can seem high if you want to play a half dozen new games every month. Meanwhile, a non-gamer who downloads that many apps in a whole year might not mind paying as much. Also, gamers seem to often be power users, so it doesn't surprise me if many of them are technically savvy enough to know how to pirate. I would imagine that apps meant for garden variety Android users might be less widely pirated. I mean, FWIW, of the friends of mine who I know use Android phones, I estimate 80 percent would have no clue how to download a pirated app if the thought even were to occur to them. And most of the other 20 percent who are tech savvy enough to do it are probably unlikely to find it worth the hassle.
      - mahyarm 14y ago
        Jailbreaks can destabilize your phone on iOS. From what I understand, pirating android apps usually requires no modification of your phone's OS.
        spartango 14y ago
        While this is true, the threshold to jailbreaking has been kept quite low by the iPhone Dev Team (and youtube), and well-organized sites like AppTrackr can get users into the habit of stealing rather than buying. There's an interesting subtext here about demographics: As mentioned above, it would seem that games are more vulnerable to piracy due to the broad audience (lowest common denominator) and lack of "necessity" (games may appear trivial and thus not worth paying for to some). Productivity-linked apps such as Instapaper, Omnifocus, and Day One seem to grab paying users with less difficulty. Additionally, there's been some commentary around Android vs. iOS users being willing to pay for apps. The argument is that Apple was rather successful in targeting an audience who tend to be more willing to pay for applications. As a contrast, it's argued that Android users tend to prefer free software.
      - gurkendoktor 14y ago
joelhaasnoot 14y ago
I've never had to pay for the Android app - it seems to autorenew.
- codeka 14y ago
  I'm fairly lucky in that my work gives me a new phone about every year. So far I haven't had to pay for it, even though I've been using it for more than a year. I'm not sure how that works with their "login" stuff, though, since I'd get a new IMEI with each new phone, but it just seems to work and the contact list is still there... Personally, I'd always assumed there was no security at all and it just worked off your phone number. Certainly, I never treated any of it as in any way secure.
X-Istence 14y ago
I got the iOS app when it was free, didn't know that they decided to start charging for it.
jrajav 14y ago
Even more OT, but Angry Birds is $0.99 on iOS and free (with ads) on Android to this day: https://www.google.com/search?&q=angry+birds+android+OR+itunes https://www.google.com/search?&q=angry+birds+android+OR+... Just the nature of the different app ecosystems, really.
- css771 14y ago
  That has changed recently. With the recent Angry Birds Space, they have a 'premium' option for 0.99 and it has a healthy 500,000-1,000,000 downloads.
- norswap 14y ago
  Could the fact that Apple pretty much force you to enter your credit card number in their system play a role ? You used to be able to create an account without it, but not it seems impossible (or if it is, you have to do some devious thing 99% of the population could not figure out, even after solid googling).
  - janerik 14y ago
    You can definitely create an iTunes account without a credit card. I just did 3 days ago.
  - shinratdr 14y ago
    > or if it is, you have to do some devious thing 99% of the population could not figure out, even after solid googling That "devious thing" is "attempt to download a free app without an account". Then it will present you with the credit card-free option.
FlyingSnake 14y ago
I have seen many people use WhatsApp in India where they just change the SIM cards once the trial period is over. (and it is very popular over there.)
minikomi 14y ago
NAVER Line is also currently killing it in this space in Japan, Korea and other nearby places.. Their business model started as "free but sell extra stickers to send to your friends", but now they have critical mass it seems they're setting up some kind of social network.. But a piece at a time by making an app at a time. Their Photo sharing app is gaining ground, as is their "diary" (read: timeline) app.
- tomflack 14y ago
  Since Marchish this year I've found Naver's LINE to be really unreliable though. Messages delayed days or hours, etc. I'm surprised it's still growing if this is the case for more than just me.
  - minikomi 14y ago
    I use it daily and haven't had any problems with messaging. Phone use can be shakey.
ZoFreX 14y ago
I didn't even know it was going to be $0.99 a year after the first year. I only started using it a few months ago and I already feel a little locked in, I doubt 9 months from now I would bother switching to something else for the sake of a buck a year. Very clever, but I wonder if such a small amount of revenue will add up to enough.

mahyarm 14y ago

I think it comes down to it being harder to make money on the android store and ease of piracy vs ios store. The market share / profit tradeoff ratio on android makes it worth more to be free. On iOS they sometimes make the app free too.

zachalexander 14y ago
Tell me more. I wasn't aware app piracy was a major problem in either store.
- executive 14y ago
  Not in store - Android allows app installs from outside of the store.
- spartango 14y ago
  App piracy is actually a substantial issue on both stores: On Android, sideloading of apps from unauthorized sources (not the store), and frail DRM makes piracy really easy. The US government has been targeting these sources[1], but as you can imagine, there are many. Some have said that Android app piracy may be up to 60%[2], but I think there's some sample bias in these figures and suspect it's a fair bit lower. On iOS, piracy is a bit more difficult, requiring a jailbreak and then a hack that allows cracked apps. From there, cracked apps can be downloaded from various sources. There are fewer solutions to crack in-app purchases, but recently a few have come into the mainstream[3]. On the whole, Apple's DRM helps, but pirates have found ways around it. [1] http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/22/3259808/android-app-pirate-department-of-justice-seizure http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/22/3259808/android-app-pirate... [2] http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/7/3225154/dead-trigger-dev-interview-piracy-android-ios http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/7/3225154/dead-trigger-dev-in... [3] http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/13/3156875/ios-free-in-app-purchase-hack http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/13/3156875/ios-free-in-app-pu...
  - zachalexander 14y ago
    Thanks. I imagine this varies a lot with app category/demographic. I'm not a gamer, but I've heard that many gamers have a large, ongoing appetite for new games, and perhaps this makes them more sensitive to price. Even a $0.99 price tag can seem high if you want to play a half dozen new games every month. Meanwhile, a non-gamer who downloads that many apps in a whole year might not mind paying as much. Also, gamers seem to often be power users, so it doesn't surprise me if many of them are technically savvy enough to know how to pirate. I would imagine that apps meant for garden variety Android users might be less widely pirated. I mean, FWIW, of the friends of mine who I know use Android phones, I estimate 80 percent would have no clue how to download a pirated app if the thought even were to occur to them. And most of the other 20 percent who are tech savvy enough to do it are probably unlikely to find it worth the hassle.
    - mahyarm 14y ago
      Jailbreaks can destabilize your phone on iOS. From what I understand, pirating android apps usually requires no modification of your phone's OS.
      - spartango 14y ago
        While this is true, the threshold to jailbreaking has been kept quite low by the iPhone Dev Team (and youtube), and well-organized sites like AppTrackr can get users into the habit of stealing rather than buying. There's an interesting subtext here about demographics: As mentioned above, it would seem that games are more vulnerable to piracy due to the broad audience (lowest common denominator) and lack of "necessity" (games may appear trivial and thus not worth paying for to some). Productivity-linked apps such as Instapaper, Omnifocus, and Day One seem to grab paying users with less difficulty. Additionally, there's been some commentary around Android vs. iOS users being willing to pay for apps. The argument is that Apple was rather successful in targeting an audience who tend to be more willing to pay for applications. As a contrast, it's argued that Android users tend to prefer free software.
    - gurkendoktor 14y ago

joelhaasnoot 14y ago

I've never had to pay for the Android app - it seems to autorenew.

codeka 14y ago
I'm fairly lucky in that my work gives me a new phone about every year. So far I haven't had to pay for it, even though I've been using it for more than a year. I'm not sure how that works with their "login" stuff, though, since I'd get a new IMEI with each new phone, but it just seems to work and the contact list is still there... Personally, I'd always assumed there was no security at all and it just worked off your phone number. Certainly, I never treated any of it as in any way secure.

X-Istence 14y ago

I got the iOS app when it was free, didn't know that they decided to start charging for it.

jrajav 14y ago

Even more OT, but Angry Birds is $0.99 on iOS and free (with ads) on Android to this day: https://www.google.com/search?&q=angry+birds+android+OR+itunes https://www.google.com/search?&q=angry+birds+android+OR+... Just the nature of the different app ecosystems, really.

css771 14y ago
That has changed recently. With the recent Angry Birds Space, they have a 'premium' option for 0.99 and it has a healthy 500,000-1,000,000 downloads.
norswap 14y ago
Could the fact that Apple pretty much force you to enter your credit card number in their system play a role ? You used to be able to create an account without it, but not it seems impossible (or if it is, you have to do some devious thing 99% of the population could not figure out, even after solid googling).
- janerik 14y ago
  You can definitely create an iTunes account without a credit card. I just did 3 days ago.
- shinratdr 14y ago
  > or if it is, you have to do some devious thing 99% of the population could not figure out, even after solid googling That "devious thing" is "attempt to download a free app without an account". Then it will present you with the credit card-free option.

FlyingSnake 14y ago

I have seen many people use WhatsApp in India where they just change the SIM cards once the trial period is over. (and it is very popular over there.)

minikomi 14y ago

NAVER Line is also currently killing it in this space in Japan, Korea and other nearby places.. Their business model started as "free but sell extra stickers to send to your friends", but now they have critical mass it seems they're setting up some kind of social network.. But a piece at a time by making an app at a time. Their Photo sharing app is gaining ground, as is their "diary" (read: timeline) app.

tomflack 14y ago
Since Marchish this year I've found Naver's LINE to be really unreliable though. Messages delayed days or hours, etc. I'm surprised it's still growing if this is the case for more than just me.
- minikomi 14y ago
  I use it daily and haven't had any problems with messaging. Phone use can be shakey.

ZoFreX 14y ago

I didn't even know it was going to be $0.99 a year after the first year. I only started using it a few months ago and I already feel a little locked in, I doubt 9 months from now I would bother switching to something else for the sake of a buck a year. Very clever, but I wonder if such a small amount of revenue will add up to enough.