7 ms·

I wonder what Kirk would have thought about these firings. I had never heard of the man before, but now his quotes and fragments of quotes are being weaponized

I wonder what Kirk would have thought about these firings. I had never heard of the man before, but now his quotes and fragments of quotes are being weaponized on all fronts, making it hard to see what he actually believed.

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 1y ago
Here is a good quote relevant to the case: "Death penalties should be public, should be quick, it should be televised." Charles James Kirk
- KevinMS 1y ago
  good, maybe there would be fewer of them if they weren't hidden
  - krapp 1y ago
    You don't understand human nature or American culture if you believe that.
- zahlman 1y ago
  How is an opinion on capital punishment relevant to social media campaigns to get someone fired?
UncleMeat 1y ago
Kirk spent years trying to get professors fired and his organization maintained a "watchlist" of professors, who would regularly receive death threats and have people try to get them fired. FIRE, not exactly a liberal organization, called out TPUSA as a primary cause of increasing threats to speakers and professors on campus in recent years.
- zahlman 1y ago
  The worst I could find said about TPUSA on thefire.org with a DDG search was an incident in which a professor had teaching assignments cancelled and the university later faced pressure from Senators to fire her (they allowed her contract to expire). The same search found me multiple stories about universities denying recognition to TPUSA chapters. FIRE is quintessentially liberal. Freedom of speech is the most fundamental liberal value there is, and education is where the free exchange of ideas is most values. American left-wingers (as judged by American standards) not liking that doesn't change what liberalism is; it informs what they are. There is absolutely a bias in FIRE coverage towards conservative and Republican organizations and ideas being suppressed. I have every reason to believe that this is because that's actually representative of what happens on American college campuses.
layer8 1y ago
You don’t have to rely on second-hand reporting, there’s no lack of material from the man himself to form an opinion from, like for example: https://www.youtube.com/@RealCharlieKirk/videos https://www.youtube.com/@RealCharlieKirk/videos
platevoltage 1y ago
You don't need to wonder too hard. He created the "Professor Watchlist". You can imagine what thats for. He also said Medhi Hasan should be deported. He was not pro-free speech. It is not hard to see what he actually believed. Maybe it is right now with all of the news happening.
- boredhedgehog 1y ago
  > He created the "Professor Watchlist". You can imagine what thats for. According to its About page, it's for documentation only; "TPUSA will continue to fight for free speech and the right of professors to say whatever they believe". > He also said Medhi Hasan should be deported. Apparently, Kirk said Hasan's visa should be revoked, as he was unaware of Hasan's citizenship. But Kirk also said in his rant to "get him off TV", which indicates that his instinctual reaction does include silencing people he disagrees with.
  - platevoltage 1y ago
    > According to its About page, it's for documentation only; "TPUSA will continue to fight for free speech and the right of professors to say whatever they believe". Well that clears things up...
  - danaris 1y ago
    > According to its About page, it's for documentation only; Sure, and all those trolls online are "just asking questions."
- zahlman 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - platevoltage 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - zahlman 1y ago
silverquiet 1y ago
I doubt Kirk believed in anything, but he was happy to say whatever would get him attention and keep his benefactors happy. He wasn't particularly ideologically consistent, though to be fair, Republicans of his time weren't either.
- vitanuova 1y ago
  [flagged]
sidibe 1y ago
[flagged]
- lostlogin 1y ago
  Your comment seems critical of him. So where is the line? What commentary on his death is acceptable and won’t get a person sacked or sanctioned from a government job?
  - sidibe 1y ago
    I don't know the specifics about most of the firings. I think saying it's good someone was killed is inflammatory and not something people should do and expect no consequences. That MSNBC guy getting fired was ridiculous though. Kirk isn't suddenly due respect and zero criticism because he died.
    - zahlman 1y ago
      Dowd didn't say that it was good, but did seem to agree that it was justified: > Dowd responded by saying about about Kirk: “He’s been one of the most divisive, especially divisive younger figures in this, who is constantly sort of pushing this sort of hate speech or sort of aimed at certain groups. And I always go back to, hateful thoughts lead to hateful words, which then lead to hateful actions. And I think that is the environment we are in. You can’t stop with these sort of awful thoughts you have and then saying these awful words and not expect awful actions to take place. And that’s the unfortunate environment we are in.” (via https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/comcast-execs-criticize-msnbc-matthew-132552519.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/comcast-execs-criticize-...) To me, that's approximately as bad.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - itsdrewmiller 1y ago
        That? That reads like “if you put a lot of hateful words out in the world you should expect it to lead to hateful action”. If anything this would be more relevant if Kirk inspired someone to kill any of the various groups he encouraged violence against. It doesn’t read at all like a justifying for killing him.

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 1y ago

Here is a good quote relevant to the case: "Death penalties should be public, should be quick, it should be televised." Charles James Kirk

KevinMS 1y ago
good, maybe there would be fewer of them if they weren't hidden
- krapp 1y ago
  You don't understand human nature or American culture if you believe that.
zahlman 1y ago
How is an opinion on capital punishment relevant to social media campaigns to get someone fired?

UncleMeat 1y ago

Kirk spent years trying to get professors fired and his organization maintained a "watchlist" of professors, who would regularly receive death threats and have people try to get them fired. FIRE, not exactly a liberal organization, called out TPUSA as a primary cause of increasing threats to speakers and professors on campus in recent years.

zahlman 1y ago
The worst I could find said about TPUSA on thefire.org with a DDG search was an incident in which a professor had teaching assignments cancelled and the university later faced pressure from Senators to fire her (they allowed her contract to expire). The same search found me multiple stories about universities denying recognition to TPUSA chapters. FIRE is quintessentially liberal. Freedom of speech is the most fundamental liberal value there is, and education is where the free exchange of ideas is most values. American left-wingers (as judged by American standards) not liking that doesn't change what liberalism is; it informs what they are. There is absolutely a bias in FIRE coverage towards conservative and Republican organizations and ideas being suppressed. I have every reason to believe that this is because that's actually representative of what happens on American college campuses.

layer8 1y ago

You don’t have to rely on second-hand reporting, there’s no lack of material from the man himself to form an opinion from, like for example: https://www.youtube.com/@RealCharlieKirk/videos https://www.youtube.com/@RealCharlieKirk/videos

platevoltage 1y ago

You don't need to wonder too hard. He created the "Professor Watchlist". You can imagine what thats for. He also said Medhi Hasan should be deported. He was not pro-free speech. It is not hard to see what he actually believed. Maybe it is right now with all of the news happening.

boredhedgehog 1y ago
> He created the "Professor Watchlist". You can imagine what thats for. According to its About page, it's for documentation only; "TPUSA will continue to fight for free speech and the right of professors to say whatever they believe". > He also said Medhi Hasan should be deported. Apparently, Kirk said Hasan's visa should be revoked, as he was unaware of Hasan's citizenship. But Kirk also said in his rant to "get him off TV", which indicates that his instinctual reaction does include silencing people he disagrees with.
- platevoltage 1y ago
  > According to its About page, it's for documentation only; "TPUSA will continue to fight for free speech and the right of professors to say whatever they believe". Well that clears things up...
- danaris 1y ago
  > According to its About page, it's for documentation only; Sure, and all those trolls online are "just asking questions."
zahlman 1y ago
[flagged]
- platevoltage 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - zahlman 1y ago

silverquiet 1y ago

I doubt Kirk believed in anything, but he was happy to say whatever would get him attention and keep his benefactors happy. He wasn't particularly ideologically consistent, though to be fair, Republicans of his time weren't either.

vitanuova 1y ago
[flagged]

sidibe 1y ago

[flagged]

lostlogin 1y ago
Your comment seems critical of him. So where is the line? What commentary on his death is acceptable and won’t get a person sacked or sanctioned from a government job?
- sidibe 1y ago
  I don't know the specifics about most of the firings. I think saying it's good someone was killed is inflammatory and not something people should do and expect no consequences. That MSNBC guy getting fired was ridiculous though. Kirk isn't suddenly due respect and zero criticism because he died.
  - zahlman 1y ago
    Dowd didn't say that it was good, but did seem to agree that it was justified: > Dowd responded by saying about about Kirk: “He’s been one of the most divisive, especially divisive younger figures in this, who is constantly sort of pushing this sort of hate speech or sort of aimed at certain groups. And I always go back to, hateful thoughts lead to hateful words, which then lead to hateful actions. And I think that is the environment we are in. You can’t stop with these sort of awful thoughts you have and then saying these awful words and not expect awful actions to take place. And that’s the unfortunate environment we are in.” (via https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/comcast-execs-criticize-msnbc-matthew-132552519.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/comcast-execs-criticize-...) To me, that's approximately as bad.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - itsdrewmiller 1y ago
      That? That reads like “if you put a lot of hateful words out in the world you should expect it to lead to hateful action”. If anything this would be more relevant if Kirk inspired someone to kill any of the various groups he encouraged violence against. It doesn’t read at all like a justifying for killing him.