6 ms·

Now the shoe is on the other foot, and hopefully folks on both sides of the aisle are finally understanding why the power to take someone's livelihood over thei

Now the shoe is on the other foot, and hopefully folks on both sides of the aisle are finally understanding why the power to take someone's livelihood over their constitutionally protected speech is such a bad thing.

delichon 1y ago
How is "the power to take someone's livelihood over their constitutionally protected speech" distinct from "freedom of association"? Is freedom of association a bad thing? Or do you just want to limit it with respect to firing? How about hiring? Is it ok not to hire people who have values I deplore?
- ripcjk 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - techpineapple 1y ago
    I think so? If it’s not a specific threat of imminent harm. (Just, to answer your question, I don’t advocate such behavior)
  - jmye 1y ago
    What does that bullshit non sequitur have to do with the post you responded to? Is there some reason you feel compelled to interact in such an abjectly dishonest way?
    - like_any_other 1y ago
      It's not a non-sequitur - people are calling for death [1] (somehow this doesn't get a mention in the NPR article - an honest oversight, I'm sure!), while the post claimed they were being fired for constitutionally protected speech. So it makes sense to ask if calls for death are protected. To answer that question, I think it's close? It's not imminent lawless action or a true threat, which are the usual criteria for when the 1st Amendment doesn't shield speech. But it could be interpreted as instructing someone to commit a crime. But since it could be argued the posters have no reasonable expectation their instructions will be carried out [2], that means it's probably (speculating, I don't know of any precedent on this) protected. In the USA - most other countries are not nearly so permissive. [1] https://thatparkplace.com/bluesky-users-call-for-death-of-donald-trump-j-k-rowling-elon-musk-and-more-after-charlie-kirk-assassination/ https://thatparkplace.com/bluesky-users-call-for-death-of-do... [2] Carried out specifically because they issued them, and not because someone was going to kill Rowling anyway.
ZeroGravitas 1y ago
Charlie Kirk himself had a list of academics he was trying to hound out of their jobs as part of his career as a grifting propagandist. He is currently being praised as a champion of free speech. The shoe is not on the other foot. Just the right foot is, as usual, projecting and being dishonest about their own well documented problems. Just as they did before they found out that Kirk was shot by one of their own.
- like_any_other 1y ago
  > shot by one of their own You are basing this on.. the shell casings with Antifa slogans? Or the high school friend who claims he was "pretty left on everything" [1]? [1] https://gellerreport.com/2025/09/tyler-robinson-was-really-leftist.html/ https://gellerreport.com/2025/09/tyler-robinson-was-really-l...
  - ZeroGravitas 1y ago
    Is this where you get your news from? Wikipedia says: > Pamela Geller (born 1958) is an American anti-Muslim, far-right political activist, blogger and commentator.[1] Geller promoted birther conspiracy theories about President Barack Obama, saying that he was born in Kenya[4] and that he is a Muslim.[5]
    - like_any_other 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - ZeroGravitas 1y ago
        The source they cite was retracted, just as the WSJ had to retract their similar reporting. The shooter is a Groyper, a far right sect that has been "warring" with Kirk for a while and disrupting his appearances because they disagree about exactly how openly Fascist they should be. A far right killer from a hardcore MAGA family. The other school shooting that day was also far-right, btw.
smallerize 1y ago
https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/scholars-under-fire-attempts-sanction-scholars-2000-2022 https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/scholars-under-fire-a... "In 2021, 213 sanction attempts occurred, more than in any other year. This was partially due to Turning Point USA calling on parents and students to contact the institutions of 61 professors featured on their Professor Watchlist website." TPUSA was founded by Kirk.
bediger4000 1y ago
If a given action is ethical, then it shouldn't be done, even as a tit-for-tat. This merely exposed the hypocrisy of the self proclaimed free speech absoluists.
- kstenerud 1y ago
  It's never about freedom; it's always about power - regardless of how people dress it up. That's why a powerful and independent judiciary is so important.
techpineapple 1y ago
Why would people learn that? Clearly what people are learning is it’s an effective tactic.

delichon 1y ago

How is "the power to take someone's livelihood over their constitutionally protected speech" distinct from "freedom of association"? Is freedom of association a bad thing? Or do you just want to limit it with respect to firing? How about hiring? Is it ok not to hire people who have values I deplore?

ripcjk 1y ago
[flagged]
- techpineapple 1y ago
  I think so? If it’s not a specific threat of imminent harm. (Just, to answer your question, I don’t advocate such behavior)
- jmye 1y ago
  What does that bullshit non sequitur have to do with the post you responded to? Is there some reason you feel compelled to interact in such an abjectly dishonest way?
  - like_any_other 1y ago
    It's not a non-sequitur - people are calling for death [1] (somehow this doesn't get a mention in the NPR article - an honest oversight, I'm sure!), while the post claimed they were being fired for constitutionally protected speech. So it makes sense to ask if calls for death are protected. To answer that question, I think it's close? It's not imminent lawless action or a true threat, which are the usual criteria for when the 1st Amendment doesn't shield speech. But it could be interpreted as instructing someone to commit a crime. But since it could be argued the posters have no reasonable expectation their instructions will be carried out [2], that means it's probably (speculating, I don't know of any precedent on this) protected. In the USA - most other countries are not nearly so permissive. [1] https://thatparkplace.com/bluesky-users-call-for-death-of-donald-trump-j-k-rowling-elon-musk-and-more-after-charlie-kirk-assassination/ https://thatparkplace.com/bluesky-users-call-for-death-of-do... [2] Carried out specifically because they issued them, and not because someone was going to kill Rowling anyway.

ZeroGravitas 1y ago

Charlie Kirk himself had a list of academics he was trying to hound out of their jobs as part of his career as a grifting propagandist. He is currently being praised as a champion of free speech. The shoe is not on the other foot. Just the right foot is, as usual, projecting and being dishonest about their own well documented problems. Just as they did before they found out that Kirk was shot by one of their own.

like_any_other 1y ago
> shot by one of their own You are basing this on.. the shell casings with Antifa slogans? Or the high school friend who claims he was "pretty left on everything" [1]? [1] https://gellerreport.com/2025/09/tyler-robinson-was-really-leftist.html/ https://gellerreport.com/2025/09/tyler-robinson-was-really-l...
- ZeroGravitas 1y ago
  Is this where you get your news from? Wikipedia says: > Pamela Geller (born 1958) is an American anti-Muslim, far-right political activist, blogger and commentator.[1] Geller promoted birther conspiracy theories about President Barack Obama, saying that he was born in Kenya[4] and that he is a Muslim.[5]
  - like_any_other 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - ZeroGravitas 1y ago
      The source they cite was retracted, just as the WSJ had to retract their similar reporting. The shooter is a Groyper, a far right sect that has been "warring" with Kirk for a while and disrupting his appearances because they disagree about exactly how openly Fascist they should be. A far right killer from a hardcore MAGA family. The other school shooting that day was also far-right, btw.

smallerize 1y ago

https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/scholars-under-fire-attempts-sanction-scholars-2000-2022 https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/scholars-under-fire-a... "In 2021, 213 sanction attempts occurred, more than in any other year. This was partially due to Turning Point USA calling on parents and students to contact the institutions of 61 professors featured on their Professor Watchlist website." TPUSA was founded by Kirk.

bediger4000 1y ago

If a given action is ethical, then it shouldn't be done, even as a tit-for-tat. This merely exposed the hypocrisy of the self proclaimed free speech absoluists.

kstenerud 1y ago
It's never about freedom; it's always about power - regardless of how people dress it up. That's why a powerful and independent judiciary is so important.

techpineapple 1y ago

Why would people learn that? Clearly what people are learning is it’s an effective tactic.