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> Phrack reached out to Proton in private multiple times, and Proton ghosted them. According to Proton's response in the linked reddit post: https://news.ycomb

by j-bos 1y ago

> Phrack reached out to Proton in private multiple times, and Proton ghosted them. According to Proton's response in the linked reddit post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45227356 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45227356 They say: "Regarding Phrack’s claim on contacting our legal team 8 times: this is not true. We have only received two emails to our legal team inbox, last one on Sep 6 with a 48-hour deadline. This is unrealistic for a company the size of Proton, especially since the message was sent to our legal team inbox on a Saturday, rather than through the proper customer support channels."

nsagent 1y ago
To be honest, I've found Proton's public customer service representatives to be very duplicitous, so it's hard to take their word at face value. It's pretty ridiculous to see their response to legitimate concerns start with: "That doesn't sound right..." 80-90% of the time.
commmentator 1y ago
You'll note that Proton's PR only mentions the second date - " last one on Sep 6 with a 48-hour deadline." Proton doesn't mention that the first email from Phrack which Proton ignored was weeks prior to that, which is what led to the second email in the first place. You'll also note that Proton doesn't mention that their Abuse Team refused to re-anable the account after the article author did the appeals process, as per Phrack's timeline at the top of their article.
- j-bos 1y ago
  That's a great point. I guess at this point it'd be ideal for them to treat this an incident and do a proper postmortem with timelines and decision calculus.
  - commmentator 1y ago
    Definitely agree. A frank postmortem would be a good thing to see.
  - alsetmusic 1y ago
    But that would be contrary to their clear intention thus far: to sweep this under the rug. /s I had previously liked Proton. I started seeing bits and pieces of info about their security being lackluster over the past year or so, causing doubt about their credibility. I'm definitely done with them after this.
    - Insanity 1y ago
      This is honestly sad to see. I use Proton and advocate it to others. This does make me rethink my position somewhat - although I’d argue it’s still better than Google / Microsoft-owned email services.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
a0123 1y ago
Sorry but doubt. The whole "we have only received two emails" is a classic move of every company caught with their pants down. Considering Proton's history, they don't get the benefit of the doubt on this one. As for the "company size excuse" sorry but considering the business you claim to be in (the private and secure email), having an on-call skeleton crew legal team available over the weekend for urgent requests is a bare minimum (and I'm pretty sure they have people available to hand over everything the cops request if "the proper process is followed"). Remember that they have turned over information in less than 24 hours before (for what they call an extreme case of course). So the "size" excuse doesn't hold. Doesn't matter how urgent it is, if they are the small bean they claim they are, there is no chance they can have a turnaround of less than 24 hours. Again, it's not what they did that's the biggest issue, it's the coverup. Just like last time they got in hot water. Because the coverup raises a lot more questions.
- KingOfCoders 1y ago
  If you don't have enough people to run your business you're doing it wrong. If you don't have enough money to hire people for your business, it's not a viable business.
- hulitu 1y ago
  > having an on-call skeleton crew legal team available over the weekend for urgent requests is a bare minimum I don't know about Switzerland, but in Germany, no company will be available "over the weekend". Almost everything on the internet in DE is Mo-Fr 9-17.
  - traceroute66 1y ago
    > I don't know about Switzerland, but in Germany, no company will be available "over the weekend". Before 31 December 2020, the Swiss Airforce famously only operated during office hours....
BLKNSLVR 1y ago
> a 48-hour deadline. This is unrealistic for a company the size of Proton and yet suspending the account...
crossroadsguy 1y ago
[flagged]

by j-bos 1y ago

nsagent 1y ago

To be honest, I've found Proton's public customer service representatives to be very duplicitous, so it's hard to take their word at face value. It's pretty ridiculous to see their response to legitimate concerns start with: "That doesn't sound right..." 80-90% of the time.

commmentator 1y ago

You'll note that Proton's PR only mentions the second date - " last one on Sep 6 with a 48-hour deadline." Proton doesn't mention that the first email from Phrack which Proton ignored was weeks prior to that, which is what led to the second email in the first place. You'll also note that Proton doesn't mention that their Abuse Team refused to re-anable the account after the article author did the appeals process, as per Phrack's timeline at the top of their article.

j-bos 1y ago
That's a great point. I guess at this point it'd be ideal for them to treat this an incident and do a proper postmortem with timelines and decision calculus.
- commmentator 1y ago
  Definitely agree. A frank postmortem would be a good thing to see.
- alsetmusic 1y ago
  But that would be contrary to their clear intention thus far: to sweep this under the rug. /s I had previously liked Proton. I started seeing bits and pieces of info about their security being lackluster over the past year or so, causing doubt about their credibility. I'm definitely done with them after this.
  - Insanity 1y ago
    This is honestly sad to see. I use Proton and advocate it to others. This does make me rethink my position somewhat - although I’d argue it’s still better than Google / Microsoft-owned email services.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

a0123 1y ago

Sorry but doubt. The whole "we have only received two emails" is a classic move of every company caught with their pants down. Considering Proton's history, they don't get the benefit of the doubt on this one. As for the "company size excuse" sorry but considering the business you claim to be in (the private and secure email), having an on-call skeleton crew legal team available over the weekend for urgent requests is a bare minimum (and I'm pretty sure they have people available to hand over everything the cops request if "the proper process is followed"). Remember that they have turned over information in less than 24 hours before (for what they call an extreme case of course). So the "size" excuse doesn't hold. Doesn't matter how urgent it is, if they are the small bean they claim they are, there is no chance they can have a turnaround of less than 24 hours. Again, it's not what they did that's the biggest issue, it's the coverup. Just like last time they got in hot water. Because the coverup raises a lot more questions.

KingOfCoders 1y ago
If you don't have enough people to run your business you're doing it wrong. If you don't have enough money to hire people for your business, it's not a viable business.
hulitu 1y ago
> having an on-call skeleton crew legal team available over the weekend for urgent requests is a bare minimum I don't know about Switzerland, but in Germany, no company will be available "over the weekend". Almost everything on the internet in DE is Mo-Fr 9-17.
- traceroute66 1y ago
  > I don't know about Switzerland, but in Germany, no company will be available "over the weekend". Before 31 December 2020, the Swiss Airforce famously only operated during office hours....

BLKNSLVR 1y ago

> a 48-hour deadline. This is unrealistic for a company the size of Proton and yet suspending the account...

crossroadsguy 1y ago

[flagged]