11 ms·

We Need a Warby Parker for Mattresses

193 points by rohin 14y ago

streptomycin 14y ago
FWIW, Warby Parker was not the first web-based retailer to undercut traditional eyewear sales, nor are they the cheapest. They do seem to have the best PR, though.
- storborg 14y ago
  They also have by far the best customer experience. Their website is fantastic and fulfillment is lightning-fast, neither of which can be said about the competitors that I've tried (framesdirect.com, zennioptical.com, glasses.com, 39dollarglasses). It's not just PR. Unfortunately, their range of styles is still very narrow, which is presumably dependent on their manufacturing capabilities.
  - lesterbuck 14y ago
    I used zennioptical.com in 2008 and was very happy. Lacking any fashion sense, I ordered some computer glasses that I hoped would completely disappear on my face - #804811 titanium shape memory rimless, single vision, high index of refraction, with various coatings delivered for under $40. After two years, the nose bridge broke and I took it around locally to see about a repair. The local repair guru quoted me $45 to solder them back together and he started filling out the order, when I stopped him and said I paid less than that for the whole pair of glasses. Turns out Zenni also sells the frames separately, $14.95 for that item, and anyone can install the old lenses into the new frames.
    - mahyarm 14y ago
      I think getting a new pair of glasses would still be better after two years, just because of the wear and tear on the lenses alone degrades your vision.
    - dminor 14y ago
      I just ordered a pair from Zenni. Their site is pretty slow, but for $30 for a pair of glasses I'll happily put up with it.
  - streptomycin 14y ago
    I didn't mean to imply that it's just PR, but they do undoubtedly have the best PR out of all those companies.
- Zombieball 14y ago
  Excuse my ignorance, I haven't even heard about Warby Parker until this article. How long have they been around (my quick Google searches have failed me)? I have heard of ClearlyContacts.ca (I am Canadian), is Warby Parker comparable?
  - mhb 14y ago
    http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=warby http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=warby
  - nchlswu 14y ago
    They're comparable in that they send glasses online, but Warby's differentiator is that they manufacture frames (so they handle the whole process end to end) and offer a home try on kit. You can order X amount of glasses to try on at home. They basically started a very customer friendly model that other online glasses retailers didn't offer at the time of founding. EDIT: Basically, customer experience.
- hornbaker 14y ago
  Ditto is coming on strong, and has some way-cool tech: http://ditto.com http://ditto.com. Warby is nice and all, but their selection is limited to just acrylic frames of their own design.
ryanwaggoner 14y ago
Like any startup idea, there will be objections. Shipping mattresses is expensive, people want to lie on them first, mattresses require research and development spending to develop, a mattress purchase only happens once a decade, etc. All these objections might be right, but they all sound surmountable. They might be surmountable, but that doesn't make this a better opportunity than a lot of the other opportunities out there, especially for a startup. The costs involved with disrupting the mattress industry as a manufacturer AND retailer are better left to a larger company. Like IKEA, as the article itself pointed out.
- stcredzero 14y ago
  > a mattress purchase only happens once a decade This is a cultural artifact. We've reached a point in manufacturing technology where this should no longer be true. > disrupting the mattress industry as a manufacturer AND retailer...Like IKEA,... The most comfortable mattress I've ever slept on: A Sultan Fonnes mattress, with an egg crate foam topper from http://www.foambymail.com/ http://www.foambymail.com/ on a platform bed, no box springs. You can leave off the topper and save about $60, if you like, and you wind up with the equivalent of a great firm futon that never bunches up. The combination for Queen is well under $400, including taxes and shipping. My plan for instant "satisficed" sleep furniture: Buy a cheap platform bed, a Sultan Fonnes mattress, and 3 eggcrate foam toppers. Keep the combination with the topper you like best and sell the other two. No going to the store needed at all. It could all be done through the mail and by delivery in most of the US. I am not associated in any way with IKEA or foambymail.com except as a customer.
  - s_baby 14y ago
    After developing neck+back pain and doing many hours of research this is the solution I arrived at as well. I use an Ikea firm foam bed with a 2.5" memory foam on top. This ends up giving the support of a "medium-firm" many doctors advocate for. For back sleeping, this is by far the most comfortable bed I've owned.
  - eru 14y ago
    Have you ever tried putting a slatted frame underneath your mattress? In Germany you usually put the slatted frame in a bed, but I found you can also just put that on the floor (plus mattress) to have a very low bedstead.
ksherlock 14y ago
I'd think a better model for disruption would be Priceline. Name a price and let local mattress stores supply it. My Luxotica/Ray Bans were made in Italy and (on sale) aren't any more expensive than the Chinese made Warby Parker sunglasses.
debacle 14y ago
When I bought my last mattress, it was a relatively painless experience, and the cost was incredibly reasonable (considering a rough estimate of what the manufacture labor might have cost). What kind of mattresses are people buying, and what sort of retailers are they going to, where this seems like an immensely extortionist industry?
jameshsi 14y ago
Interesting post. Perhaps on the incumbent end, the equivalent would be "We Need an OPEC of Mattresses."
startupfounder 14y ago
We need a Warby Parker for Diamonds! 1. Oligopoly market structure CHECK 2. Insane gross margins CHECK 3. Opaque and misleading product naming CHECK 4. Expensive distribution through unpleasant channels CHECK CHECK CHECK
- qq66 14y ago
  The problem is that a diamond is inherently a basically worthless rock, so its retail value is already a figment of the public's imagination. Blue Nile is the closest that exists today, but they are not that disruptive since the retail channels already have lots of competition -- it's the supply (De Beers) that's monopolized.
  - rom16384 14y ago
    Another approach to disrupt that market is to grow the diamonds like Gemesis does, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemesis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemesis
  - MartinCron 14y ago
    The real disruption will come in the form of widely available manufactured (not mined) diamonds. I used to think of diamonds as basically worthless rocks, until I went shopping for an engagement ring stone and looked at them under the jeweler's microscope, and thought "I want to be dressed from head to toe in these things". With mass-produced diamonds, that may become a reality.
    - qq66 14y ago
      Yes, they're nice to look at, but unlike, say, emeralds, they're not very rare -- they're simply controlled by a monopoly supplier. Manufactured diamonds will bring back a competitive supply which would exist if there was a healthy assortment of companies in the diamond mining industry today. I do question your judgment in wanting to cover yourself head to toe in diamonds :) Do you also want to drive this car? http://www.diamondvues.com/2007/04/check_out_this_diamond_studded.html http://www.diamondvues.com/2007/04/check_out_this_diamond_st...
markerdmann 14y ago
I just bought a mattress a few months ago, and I agree whole-heartedly with this post. My solution was to buy a foam mattress from bedinabox.com, which I would say is the Warby Parker for mattresses.
medell 14y ago
100% agree. But if you must buy a mattress go to SleepCountry, they price match anything.
- bryanlarsen 14y ago
  How does price matching work? One of the major problems with mattress stores is that everybody sells different mattresses -- they're 99% identical, but tiny changes are made to justify a different name and prevent comparison shopping and price matching.
  - s_baby 14y ago
    Match according to spring count and type. The profit margin at a place like Mattress Firm is ~50%. They are hungry for a sale and will bid for your purchase.
  - medell 14y ago
    Yes that is part of the whole scam which I learned a lot about during my last mattress purchase. SleepCountry has a catalog cross referencing the types of mattresses from other companies that are very similar if not exact matches to what they carry. I ended up price matching a Bay One Day Sale mattress that was $799 (normally $2000, of course that is inflated too) and they gave me a similar mattress in the showroom that was on sale for $1399. Very happy with it. I gave my friend my receipt a month later and he got the same deal. You know SleepCountry is not making much from this sale but I was really happy with their service so I'm a customer for life... or until they get disrupted!
    - debacle 14y ago
      > You know SleepCountry is not making much from this sale How do you know that? If what the article says is true, it cost them $500 to manufacture that mattress, or less. With a sale of $800, they're still making a good profit.
      - medell 14y ago
Fluxx 14y ago
I'm not sure if you can count this as a startup, but I bought my King-sized Sleep Innovations (memory foam) mattress with Amazon Prime for $530. And if I wanted the less-think 10" one, it would be $400. http://www.amazon.com/Sleep-Innovations-12-inch-Memory-Mattress/dp/B003CT37LA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1347644459&sr=8-3&keywords=king+size+memory+foam http://www.amazon.com/Sleep-Innovations-12-inch-Memory-Mattr... The damn thing was ~100lbs in a giant box, and I got it shipped to me free. It's super comfortable and well worth the money - remember you sleep for like 25% of your life. Mattresses seem like less of a specialty-item than eye glasses, so I wonder if big online retailers like Amazon can just cut out the middle man and service 80-90% of customers?
- ktsmith 14y ago
  I got my last mattress from Silver State Industries (nevada prison manufacturing) for under $500 (Cal King). It is more comfortable than the Serta that I had originally spent around $1,500 on.
  - mmanfrin 14y ago
    I think I'd find the guilt of knowing my mattress was made by slave labor to be a heavier price than the $1k in savings.
    - ktsmith 14y ago
      You might want to actually know what you are talking about before commenting. Inmates earn an hourly wage (not great), training on how to do the work, etc. The money they earn gets split up in a few different ways such as going to restitution if applicable and some is available for the inmates to spend at the canteen or save for when they get out.
      - mmanfrin 14y ago
        In Nevada they earn 13 cents an hour. http://prisonlaw.wordpress.com/2010/12/16/prison-labor-and-the-thirteenth-amendment/ http://prisonlaw.wordpress.com/2010/12/16/prison-labor-and-t... That's slave labor.
rscale 14y ago
I believe that entrepreneurs could do well, generally, by looking for opportunities in industries that are dominated by private-equity players. If an industry is overweight PE, you can bet that the market analysis looks fantastically attractive (competition isn't too fierce, suppliers have little power, buyers have little power, not many substitutes, and little perceived threat from new entrants). If a clever entrepreneur can render that last condition false and enter that market, that entrepreneur has the opportunity to shrink and consolidate a $huge market that's owned by PE players into a $smaller market that is owned by the entrepreneur. PE controlled competitors will, generally, not be particularly agile, because PE tends to capture value by leveraging the heck out of a currently viable business model. It's a model that works really well as long as base assumptions hold true, but startups can ruin that for them.
- mattmiller 14y ago
  How do you find industries dominated by PE?
  - rohin 14y ago
    Make a list of the top 20 PE funds (KKR, Bain Capital, TPG, etc) and then check out their portfolio from their website or WSJ articles.
    - tptacek 14y ago
      There are a lot of KKR companies. Wow.
  - heretohelp 14y ago
    Analysis, research, work. The stuff you ostensibly do when you're not on HN.
- notJim 14y ago
  Could someone explain for the… ahh… more financially naïve among us why private equity is the important signifier here? It seems like what rscale is talking about are markets which are opaque due to companies that have enough clout to force that inefficiency (e.g., by restricting information or making product comparisons impossible.) Why or how is that coordinated with private equity?
techcofounder 14y ago
I completely agree! I recently went shopping for a mattress at Sleep Train and they admitted that they mask the model numbers of their mattresses so you can't find them online for cheaper. Someone please build this.
- MartinCron 14y ago
  they mask the model numbers of their mattresses so you can't find them online for cheaper This practice predates looking online for cheaper. They all obfuscate model numbers so you can't do comparison shopping or "price matching" in the real world. It's shameful.
latchkey 14y ago
I bought a keetsa mattress years ago and love it. The op bought one too. It seems like the best thing to do here would be to just continue to support keetsa as they really are doing a good job on pretty much all angles. Keetsa is the Warby Parker here.
- jsiegz 14y ago
  yep, mine is keetsa as well. keetsa = warby parker without the hype or e-commerce focus (but maybe there's opportunity there). the salesman actually suggested i should get a lower end mattress than the one i thought i was going to buy. great company.
- lyime 14y ago
  +1 on Keetsa. Love the memory foam mattress. After a full day of coding/work I love coming back to this mattress.
MartinCron 14y ago
While you're disrupting the mattress industry, please consider re-thinking the King form factor. Changing the aspect ratio by just a few inches would make it perfectly square, which allows for you to rotate 90 degrees as well as flip, so the whole thing would wear out more evenly. As an extra bonus, this would make putting sheets on easier as there's no wrong way (short of inside-out, I guess).
- niggler 14y ago
  Wouldn't you then have to worry about fitted bedsheets and comforters?
  - MartinCron 14y ago
    Absolutely, you would have to get new bedsheets, comforters, and beds to support the new form factor, but if it means replacing the mattress every n*2 years instead of every n, I'll come out ahead in the long term.
    - niggler 14y ago
      You would also need to change the entire ecosystem: if you use standard mattresses, then you can leverage the existing supply of sheets etc. Which is not to say it's a bad idea, but I imagine there's much more involved.
      - muraiki 14y ago
        You could sell the custom sized mattress at cost, but then charge a premium for the sheets. That way you make money off of the sheets, which wear out more quickly than a mattress anyways. Edit: I'm joking...
        UnFleshedOne 14y ago
        Patent the square sheet form factor and you can lock out competitors and/or get hefty licensing fees. (as well as method and application of turning a sheet 90 degrees to hide coffee spots under pillows that you will then license at no cost to buyers of your brand of sheets while suing buyers of competitor's sheets)
nisbet 14y ago
The Author shouldn't have credited Dornob for the first picture of a dreamer, but the original project, which was done by students: http://www.behance.net/gallery/Dreamers/313618 http://www.behance.net/gallery/Dreamers/313618 Wasn't hard to find out - Dornob linked to it. So should everybody who uses other's images.
MattRogish 14y ago
"By the time a customer buys a mattress, it costs them ~74% more than the production cost of the product." I'm not arguing that the mattress industry isn't ripe for disruption, but very rarely is value delivered directly related to the cost of production. COGS is often difficult to accurately estimate (how much do you allocate R&D and other overhead?). An iPhone 5 may only contain $110 worth of silicon, but the value delivered is a lot more than the raw material cost. Jony Ive's salary represents a tiny fraction of each iPhone, but his design and influence represents a significant chunk of the profit.
- msandford 14y ago
  Someone there couldn't math very well. First you mark up 50%. Okay, a $100 cost mattress gets sold at $150 wholesale. Then the retailer marks it up 100%, to $300 total. That's 200% of the production cost, not 74%. What they meant to say is "production cost represents only 26% of the final cost of a mattress" but totally flubbed it.
ChuckMcM 14y ago
Clearly there is a distribution challenge (high transportation / storage costs) but I like the idea of disrupting them.
- latchkey 14y ago
  Keetsa has done a great job of helping this issue. They are foam mattresses and they suck the air out of them and stuff them into a surprisingly small box. It actually takes about a month for them to fully reinflate once unpacked.
twoodfin 14y ago
One advantage that the eyeglass market has is massive tax favorability in the U.S. I believe it's still the case that prescription eyeglasses can be bought with pre-tax dollars under a "use it or lose it" flex savings plan. I assume vision plans, which often include large purchase credits for eyeglasses at least biennially, are also tax deductible benefits. The result is often relatively price-insensitive consumers who "have" to spend $200+ on glasses lest they not be taking full advantage of their benefit.
johnzimmerman 14y ago
A couple of years ago I was looking for a Tempur-Pedic style mattress, but didn't want to spend thousands for one. After doing a lot of research I found Isoform mattresses. They are only available through the mail and have a 90-day return window if you're not happy. It would be very expensive to ship numerous mattresses, but the trial of one with no commitment to buy is pretty good.
Spooky23 14y ago
There are all sorts of outlets for reasonably priced, what you see is what you get mattresses: Sam's Club. Costco. Ikea. You can get a decent name brand mainstream mattress for ~$500. The problem with mattresses is that it's a product where you need a salesman. There's a bunch of different products that look similar, but have significant differences. You want to match the customer with what they want (or tell them what they want) so that they don't return the thing. Plus, there are some inherent logistical differences between a pair of eyeglasses that can be dropped in an envelope and shipped to anywhere in a day or two. Distribution and warehousing is expensive, the product needs to be delivered quickly (and picked up if the customer is displeased). There is a market for discount mattress sales outlets on the internet -- but just as online furniture and appliance outlets haven't "disrupted" the market, mattresses online are unlikely to either.
- JPKab 14y ago
  "There are all sorts of outlets for reasonably priced, what you see is what you get mattresses: Sam's Club. Costco. Ikea. You can get a decent name brand mainstream mattress for ~$500." I hear you, but who says that $500 is a reasonable price for a mattress? I'm sorry, but looking at the raw materials involved (don't even get me started on the frickin foam ones that don't even have springs: I'm looking at you Tempurpedic) it's clearly still a racket at the Sam's Club prices. If it is the raw materials, and not a rip off, then why do solid foam rubber mattresses cost more than mattresses containing moving parts and metal springs?
  - unohoo 14y ago
    moving parts != comfort, which is paramount when it comes to mattresses. For me (and a lot of people I know), having springs is actually an issue. The springs wear off, the mattress begins to sag and not to mention the back aches. So its not as simple as -- simple foam mattresses should cost lower just because they have less raw materials than a spring coil one.
    - fryguy 14y ago
      I suppose you wouldn't like a waterbed, then, since it's essentially 1 giant moving part.
cloudwalking 14y ago
What is a "Google-esque margin"?
fowkswe 14y ago
The article hints at this, but Ikea solves all these problems. They have a small set of easily discernable mattress lines that are priced extremely well.
benatkin 14y ago
This needs "Mattresses" added to its database: http://nonstartr.com/ http://nonstartr.com/
silverbax88 14y ago
Having worked for one of the major mattress firms, there are truths in the article, but also some serious mistakes. The pricing structure, where they hide the models by using different names across retailers, is 100% true. They absolutely do that to prevent price shopping. The markup math is off. Mattresses are a high margin business, but most of those mattresses you see in specialty retailers are not built until someone buys one. You see, those mattresses are custom to the customer - from the tick (stitching pattern, which creates a firmer or softer surface) to the foam density, to EVERYTHING. It's like ordering a car where the car is measured to a specific person's height, weight and engine preference. You can imagine what a returned mattress is worth. Pretty much nothing. The margins have to cover all of that. Are the margins good? Yes. Would a small company be able to cut their margins to make one-off custom mattresses and compete? ...maybe. Finally, there are retail outlets - Costco, Ikea, that buy from those mattress companies in bulk and sell generic mattresses much cheaper. So, yeah, there's some market there but not as rich as some might think.
- jackalope 14y ago
  A used mattress is worth about the same as a used pair of underwear. This has nothing to do with custom options.
  - silverbax88 14y ago
    That's what I meant, I just assumed people would understand that a custom-ordered mattress was 'used' once it has been taken home and returned no matter whether someone slept on it or not.
- kinofcain 14y ago
  What happens in a specialty high-end mattress store has very little to do with the bulk of the market: people buying mattresses at Macy's or one of the numerous regional mattress chains. I don't have any experience in the super-high-end, but have worked with the low-middle-high end that you get going to a "mattress store". Those models are definitely not built-to-order, they're sitting in a warehouse waiting to be delivered, even the $4k+ ones that are trying to compete with the custom shops. For the bulk of mattresses the margins mentioned in the article are conservative. What you're absolutely correct on, however, is that the cost of building a mattress doesn't represent the cost of running a mattress business. However, that's exactly what makes it ripe for disruption: streamline the rest of the business model and loot the manufacturing margins.
knes 14y ago
Someone should do a Warby Parker for Wheelchairs.
- GFischer 14y ago
  Filed under the "to do" section :) . More seriously, there are tons of niches that are underserved by the HN crowd and that need some disruption. Patio11's talk has inspired me a lot: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/03/26/software-for-underserved-markets/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/03/26/software-for-underserved...
tomjen3 14y ago
Maybe instead of focussing on selling mattresses you should focus on some sort of price comparison machine where you can enter what characteristica you want to (must have memory foam, must be this size, must be x, y and z) and then have the machine find close matches and display the variours prices? That way it won't matter if they fix the name, since you don't compare the mattresses on names, but on features.
raldi 14y ago
If you attempt this, I suggest you make a deal with a motel chain: When a customer checks into a room, they discover a little sign on the bed. The sign says, "Like this mattress? Get a brand-new copy delivered to your home for $X00 by visiting mattressr.com and entering bed code MEDIUMSOFT-23."
- oostevo 14y ago
  Some hotels do something similar -- chains sell the mattresses that they use in their hotels to consumers.[1] [1] http://www.whotelsthestore.com/item.asp?curr_item_id=5 http://www.whotelsthestore.com/item.asp?curr_item_id=5
  - MartinCron 14y ago
    Westin makes a lot of fuss about how great their beds are and how you can buy the whole kit for your home. http://www.westin-hotelsathome.com/bed.aspx http://www.westin-hotelsathome.com/bed.aspx I was a little disappointed when I stayed in a Westin a few years ago, the bed was nice, but didn't live up to the high expectations.
    - hapless 14y ago
      Westin and 'W' hotels are the #2 and #1 "tier" hotels in the same company, Starwood. And it seems that the 'W' bed costs about $500 more than the "Westin" version. Fitting.
      - milesskorpen 14y ago
        Le Meridien and St. Regis are both higher-end than W hotels, and are also part of SPG.
        rdl 14y ago
        St. Regis and Luxury Collection (some of which are branded as Sheratons, strangely...) are the highest, but there isn't a strict ordering of W, Westin, Le Meridien. I'd probably say it goes W, Le Meridien, Westin, but individual properties have a lot of variation. then Sheraton, then Element and Aloft, then Four Points. There are individual Sheratons which are worse than Four Points though. I prefer the Westin bed to the W bed; I've probably spent >100 nights in each.
geoka9 14y ago
Incidentally, $120 for a frame from Warby Parker (which is only "a couple of pieces of plastic and metal") is still too high IMO.
- mikegirouard 14y ago
  They also include prescription lenses as well.
eastdakota 14y ago
The core problems of the mattress industry (which are not present in eyeglasses industry) are the high costs of shipping and expensive warehouse costs. Given these, Bed In A Box (http://www.bedinabox.com/ http://www.bedinabox.com/) started with what seemed like it could be a potentially disruptive business model. They make-to-order mattresses (will even make custom sizes) and ship Tempurpedic-like memory foam mattresses directly to you via UPS. They suck all the air out of the mattresses so the boxes they come in are reasonably sized. Inside the box, there's a backpack-style sack which makes the mattress easier to carry. I hauled a Queen-sized mattress up four flights of stairs easily. I've purchased two mattresses through them and they are high quality and extremely comfortable. The first purchase they were easily 50% the cost of any quality mattress I could find elsewhere (including Costco, Sams Club, etc.), especially if you factored in the cost of delivery. I was surprised that when I went to buy another mattress from them their prices were markedly higher. I wonder if consumers were concerned that the low prices indicated low quality (not the case in my experience) or if they were unable to get the volume to sustain a low margin, high velocity business.
- AJay17 14y ago
  I've had a memory foam mattress from BedInABox for a few years now and I love it!
dirtae 14y ago
I was a big fan of The Original Mattress Factory when I lived in Pennsylvania. They manufacture their own mattresses and sell them direct to consumers. http://www.originalmattress.com/eliminating-the-middle-man http://www.originalmattress.com/eliminating-the-middle-man Unfortunately they don't have a presence on the West Coast.
daveman 14y ago
Like glasses, it's an interesting disruption opportunity due to the sheer size of demand. Just about 100% of the population sleeps on a mattress. It's hard to find other industries with so much penetration of demand and such inefficient competition. These days it doesn't seem like outbound distribution is too big of a deal (many mattresses are shippable in rolled or compressed-box form), it's the reverse logistics that are tricky. Once the genie is out of the bottle, good luck getting it back in. I'd love to be able to try out a mattress, like Zappos shoes or Bonobos pants, and return them for free if I'm not 100% happy. Maybe someone needs to invent an easily-compressable mattress so I can purchase online with total confidence.
kbrower 14y ago
I am working at a company that is trying to do just that. http://saatvamattress.com/ http://saatvamattress.com/
- abnerg 14y ago
  Say more sir. I like the non-toxic spin, pricing seems good, and yet, by the bios on your "about us" page it seems like you are very marketing oriented. That's fine, but perhaps enlighten the mass here on how you struggle or over come some of the objections raised above? Personally, I despite mattress retailers, but I also want to lie down on the thing before I commit to spending 30% of my life on it.
larrys 14y ago
For reference, here is a publicly traded retail mattress seller and it doesn't appear from their profile that they manufacture but only resell: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=MFRM+Key+Statistics http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=MFRM+Key+Statistics Take note of the margins, this isn't Microsoft sized here. They have almost 900 stores in 27 states. The article therefore is based on the idea of manufacturing your own mattress and selling web based. Unfortunately this would require warehouses around the country and a manufacturing facility in this country to make the mattresses. Although I'm not sure, I would imagine it would not be cost effective to ship a mattress from China (although I guess Mexico is possible) because of the size and weight. So this is not selling sunglasses or fashion eyewear which can easily be manufactured overseas as well as easily shipped (and returned).
ry0ohki 14y ago
Is it so bad that an industry has high margins? $500-1000 doesn't seem that expensive for a once every 10 years purchase. Mattress salesman gotta make a living! Seems very hypocritical while we make 90% margins on software.
pkulak 14y ago
It's really easy to spot the industries that have ridiculous margins; just find the shops that stay open forever, yet seem to make about 1-2 sales a day. I've seen mattress stores that seem to be able to sustain one full-time employee and about 20000 square feet of showroom on a couple purchases a day. Some with sunglass stores.
chiphanna 14y ago
I actually had this idea while shopping for mattresses a couple of months ago. It's nuts. I started thinking about the economics of a new mattress and couldn't get it to work out, financially. The biggest thing the big stores (like Mattress Firm, etc.) have is distribution and floor space. You need to try out a new mattress. There's nothing around that. After trying over 50+ mattresses, I realized that. There are so many different kinds and not a lot in common. You'd be tough pressed to find 10 people like like the same mattress. It'd be like buying a car without test driving it. That never happens. Then there's the economics of it: - Retail Price: ~$1,000 - Price of Materials: I'd estimate to be around $100. Labor, probably close to $25. - Modern Mattresses Companies put a TON into research/development/marketing. I'd estimate that to be about another $100 (on the low end) of the cost of the mattress. - Shipping, even freight, for something this size has got to cost at least $25. Right now, we're at $300 for a $1,000 item. - This is the (fairly) hard cost of making the item. I wouldn't be surprised if the Sealy's of the world sell it to the Mattress Firms for $500 and make a $200 profit (reasonable, to me). Then, to pay for even more marketing, floor space, employees and delivery service - you better believe that Mattress Firm demands a 50% margin. If we could somehow fix the distribution/store front option, we could get the price down - but that's the tough part. In case you were wondering, after all of my research, this is what I ended up buying: http://chip-hanna.com/how-to-find-the-perfect-mattress-for-you-and-sleep-like-the-dead/ http://chip-hanna.com/how-to-find-the-perfect-mattress-for-y... It was, honestly, the best money I've ever spent. A great bed makes all the difference. I'm not very sure of the legality of this, but one possible option is to have "If you like the Sealy Optimum Radiance, you'll like (insert new brand here)." That would drive people to the Mattress Firms of the world to try them out, but online to purchase (what happens with most products today anyway).
BroNamath 14y ago
I just got 5 frames from WP in the mail for "in home try on." The quality of the glasses are sup-par. They feel like frames you would find at the gas station. Yes the frames are stylish, but for anyone who has bought glasses their entire lives, you would know right away why these cost $95. There is a company that is the WP of mattresses: Ikea. The product is cheap and of low quality.
uptown 14y ago
Warby Parker's name has crossed my radar a few times in the past month, but I know nothing about what makes them special. Can somebody please enlighten me, because even after looking at their site, I still don't get what the big deal is. Then again, I've got 20/15 vision, and don't wear glasses, so I'm not their target market.
stretchwithme 14y ago
Wouldn't it be cool if a mattress came in 8 pieces so you can easily move it and flip it, and rearrange or even replace saggy sections? I'm sure the need for the entire thing to respond to your body the way it does probably prevents such a thing, but that sure would make it easier to own one.
olalonde 14y ago
I'm starting to wonder if priceonomics.com shouldn't pivot to become a full-fledged data driven publication. They have been publishing some amazingly high quality content lately.

193 points by rohin 14y ago

FWIW, Warby Parker was not the first web-based retailer to undercut traditional eyewear sales, nor are they the cheapest. They do seem to have the best PR, though.

storborg 14y ago
They also have by far the best customer experience. Their website is fantastic and fulfillment is lightning-fast, neither of which can be said about the competitors that I've tried (framesdirect.com, zennioptical.com, glasses.com, 39dollarglasses). It's not just PR. Unfortunately, their range of styles is still very narrow, which is presumably dependent on their manufacturing capabilities.
- lesterbuck 14y ago
  I used zennioptical.com in 2008 and was very happy. Lacking any fashion sense, I ordered some computer glasses that I hoped would completely disappear on my face - #804811 titanium shape memory rimless, single vision, high index of refraction, with various coatings delivered for under $40. After two years, the nose bridge broke and I took it around locally to see about a repair. The local repair guru quoted me $45 to solder them back together and he started filling out the order, when I stopped him and said I paid less than that for the whole pair of glasses. Turns out Zenni also sells the frames separately, $14.95 for that item, and anyone can install the old lenses into the new frames.
  - mahyarm 14y ago
    I think getting a new pair of glasses would still be better after two years, just because of the wear and tear on the lenses alone degrades your vision.
  - dminor 14y ago
    I just ordered a pair from Zenni. Their site is pretty slow, but for $30 for a pair of glasses I'll happily put up with it.
- streptomycin 14y ago
  I didn't mean to imply that it's just PR, but they do undoubtedly have the best PR out of all those companies.
Zombieball 14y ago
Excuse my ignorance, I haven't even heard about Warby Parker until this article. How long have they been around (my quick Google searches have failed me)? I have heard of ClearlyContacts.ca (I am Canadian), is Warby Parker comparable?
- mhb 14y ago
  http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=warby http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=warby
- nchlswu 14y ago
  They're comparable in that they send glasses online, but Warby's differentiator is that they manufacture frames (so they handle the whole process end to end) and offer a home try on kit. You can order X amount of glasses to try on at home. They basically started a very customer friendly model that other online glasses retailers didn't offer at the time of founding. EDIT: Basically, customer experience.
hornbaker 14y ago
Ditto is coming on strong, and has some way-cool tech: http://ditto.com http://ditto.com. Warby is nice and all, but their selection is limited to just acrylic frames of their own design.

ryanwaggoner 14y ago

Like any startup idea, there will be objections. Shipping mattresses is expensive, people want to lie on them first, mattresses require research and development spending to develop, a mattress purchase only happens once a decade, etc. All these objections might be right, but they all sound surmountable. They might be surmountable, but that doesn't make this a better opportunity than a lot of the other opportunities out there, especially for a startup. The costs involved with disrupting the mattress industry as a manufacturer AND retailer are better left to a larger company. Like IKEA, as the article itself pointed out.

stcredzero 14y ago
> a mattress purchase only happens once a decade This is a cultural artifact. We've reached a point in manufacturing technology where this should no longer be true. > disrupting the mattress industry as a manufacturer AND retailer...Like IKEA,... The most comfortable mattress I've ever slept on: A Sultan Fonnes mattress, with an egg crate foam topper from http://www.foambymail.com/ http://www.foambymail.com/ on a platform bed, no box springs. You can leave off the topper and save about $60, if you like, and you wind up with the equivalent of a great firm futon that never bunches up. The combination for Queen is well under $400, including taxes and shipping. My plan for instant "satisficed" sleep furniture: Buy a cheap platform bed, a Sultan Fonnes mattress, and 3 eggcrate foam toppers. Keep the combination with the topper you like best and sell the other two. No going to the store needed at all. It could all be done through the mail and by delivery in most of the US. I am not associated in any way with IKEA or foambymail.com except as a customer.
- s_baby 14y ago
  After developing neck+back pain and doing many hours of research this is the solution I arrived at as well. I use an Ikea firm foam bed with a 2.5" memory foam on top. This ends up giving the support of a "medium-firm" many doctors advocate for. For back sleeping, this is by far the most comfortable bed I've owned.
- eru 14y ago
  Have you ever tried putting a slatted frame underneath your mattress? In Germany you usually put the slatted frame in a bed, but I found you can also just put that on the floor (plus mattress) to have a very low bedstead.

ksherlock 14y ago

I'd think a better model for disruption would be Priceline. Name a price and let local mattress stores supply it. My Luxotica/Ray Bans were made in Italy and (on sale) aren't any more expensive than the Chinese made Warby Parker sunglasses.

debacle 14y ago

When I bought my last mattress, it was a relatively painless experience, and the cost was incredibly reasonable (considering a rough estimate of what the manufacture labor might have cost). What kind of mattresses are people buying, and what sort of retailers are they going to, where this seems like an immensely extortionist industry?

jameshsi 14y ago

Interesting post. Perhaps on the incumbent end, the equivalent would be "We Need an OPEC of Mattresses."

startupfounder 14y ago

We need a Warby Parker for Diamonds! 1. Oligopoly market structure CHECK 2. Insane gross margins CHECK 3. Opaque and misleading product naming CHECK 4. Expensive distribution through unpleasant channels CHECK CHECK CHECK

qq66 14y ago
The problem is that a diamond is inherently a basically worthless rock, so its retail value is already a figment of the public's imagination. Blue Nile is the closest that exists today, but they are not that disruptive since the retail channels already have lots of competition -- it's the supply (De Beers) that's monopolized.
- rom16384 14y ago
  Another approach to disrupt that market is to grow the diamonds like Gemesis does, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemesis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemesis
- MartinCron 14y ago
  The real disruption will come in the form of widely available manufactured (not mined) diamonds. I used to think of diamonds as basically worthless rocks, until I went shopping for an engagement ring stone and looked at them under the jeweler's microscope, and thought "I want to be dressed from head to toe in these things". With mass-produced diamonds, that may become a reality.
  - qq66 14y ago
    Yes, they're nice to look at, but unlike, say, emeralds, they're not very rare -- they're simply controlled by a monopoly supplier. Manufactured diamonds will bring back a competitive supply which would exist if there was a healthy assortment of companies in the diamond mining industry today. I do question your judgment in wanting to cover yourself head to toe in diamonds :) Do you also want to drive this car? http://www.diamondvues.com/2007/04/check_out_this_diamond_studded.html http://www.diamondvues.com/2007/04/check_out_this_diamond_st...

markerdmann 14y ago

I just bought a mattress a few months ago, and I agree whole-heartedly with this post. My solution was to buy a foam mattress from bedinabox.com, which I would say is the Warby Parker for mattresses.

medell 14y ago

100% agree. But if you must buy a mattress go to SleepCountry, they price match anything.

bryanlarsen 14y ago
How does price matching work? One of the major problems with mattress stores is that everybody sells different mattresses -- they're 99% identical, but tiny changes are made to justify a different name and prevent comparison shopping and price matching.
- s_baby 14y ago
  Match according to spring count and type. The profit margin at a place like Mattress Firm is ~50%. They are hungry for a sale and will bid for your purchase.
- medell 14y ago
  Yes that is part of the whole scam which I learned a lot about during my last mattress purchase. SleepCountry has a catalog cross referencing the types of mattresses from other companies that are very similar if not exact matches to what they carry. I ended up price matching a Bay One Day Sale mattress that was $799 (normally $2000, of course that is inflated too) and they gave me a similar mattress in the showroom that was on sale for $1399. Very happy with it. I gave my friend my receipt a month later and he got the same deal. You know SleepCountry is not making much from this sale but I was really happy with their service so I'm a customer for life... or until they get disrupted!
  - debacle 14y ago
    > You know SleepCountry is not making much from this sale How do you know that? If what the article says is true, it cost them $500 to manufacture that mattress, or less. With a sale of $800, they're still making a good profit.
    - medell 14y ago

Fluxx 14y ago

I'm not sure if you can count this as a startup, but I bought my King-sized Sleep Innovations (memory foam) mattress with Amazon Prime for $530. And if I wanted the less-think 10" one, it would be $400. http://www.amazon.com/Sleep-Innovations-12-inch-Memory-Mattress/dp/B003CT37LA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1347644459&sr=8-3&keywords=king+size+memory+foam http://www.amazon.com/Sleep-Innovations-12-inch-Memory-Mattr... The damn thing was ~100lbs in a giant box, and I got it shipped to me free. It's super comfortable and well worth the money - remember you sleep for like 25% of your life. Mattresses seem like less of a specialty-item than eye glasses, so I wonder if big online retailers like Amazon can just cut out the middle man and service 80-90% of customers?

ktsmith 14y ago
I got my last mattress from Silver State Industries (nevada prison manufacturing) for under $500 (Cal King). It is more comfortable than the Serta that I had originally spent around $1,500 on.
- mmanfrin 14y ago
  I think I'd find the guilt of knowing my mattress was made by slave labor to be a heavier price than the $1k in savings.
  - ktsmith 14y ago
    You might want to actually know what you are talking about before commenting. Inmates earn an hourly wage (not great), training on how to do the work, etc. The money they earn gets split up in a few different ways such as going to restitution if applicable and some is available for the inmates to spend at the canteen or save for when they get out.
    - mmanfrin 14y ago
      In Nevada they earn 13 cents an hour. http://prisonlaw.wordpress.com/2010/12/16/prison-labor-and-the-thirteenth-amendment/ http://prisonlaw.wordpress.com/2010/12/16/prison-labor-and-t... That's slave labor.

rscale 14y ago

I believe that entrepreneurs could do well, generally, by looking for opportunities in industries that are dominated by private-equity players. If an industry is overweight PE, you can bet that the market analysis looks fantastically attractive (competition isn't too fierce, suppliers have little power, buyers have little power, not many substitutes, and little perceived threat from new entrants). If a clever entrepreneur can render that last condition false and enter that market, that entrepreneur has the opportunity to shrink and consolidate a $huge market that's owned by PE players into a $smaller market that is owned by the entrepreneur. PE controlled competitors will, generally, not be particularly agile, because PE tends to capture value by leveraging the heck out of a currently viable business model. It's a model that works really well as long as base assumptions hold true, but startups can ruin that for them.

mattmiller 14y ago
How do you find industries dominated by PE?
- rohin 14y ago
  Make a list of the top 20 PE funds (KKR, Bain Capital, TPG, etc) and then check out their portfolio from their website or WSJ articles.
  - tptacek 14y ago
    There are a lot of KKR companies. Wow.
- heretohelp 14y ago
  Analysis, research, work. The stuff you ostensibly do when you're not on HN.
notJim 14y ago
Could someone explain for the… ahh… more financially naïve among us why private equity is the important signifier here? It seems like what rscale is talking about are markets which are opaque due to companies that have enough clout to force that inefficiency (e.g., by restricting information or making product comparisons impossible.) Why or how is that coordinated with private equity?

techcofounder 14y ago

I completely agree! I recently went shopping for a mattress at Sleep Train and they admitted that they mask the model numbers of their mattresses so you can't find them online for cheaper. Someone please build this.

MartinCron 14y ago
they mask the model numbers of their mattresses so you can't find them online for cheaper This practice predates looking online for cheaper. They all obfuscate model numbers so you can't do comparison shopping or "price matching" in the real world. It's shameful.

latchkey 14y ago

I bought a keetsa mattress years ago and love it. The op bought one too. It seems like the best thing to do here would be to just continue to support keetsa as they really are doing a good job on pretty much all angles. Keetsa is the Warby Parker here.

jsiegz 14y ago
yep, mine is keetsa as well. keetsa = warby parker without the hype or e-commerce focus (but maybe there's opportunity there). the salesman actually suggested i should get a lower end mattress than the one i thought i was going to buy. great company.
lyime 14y ago
+1 on Keetsa. Love the memory foam mattress. After a full day of coding/work I love coming back to this mattress.

MartinCron 14y ago

While you're disrupting the mattress industry, please consider re-thinking the King form factor. Changing the aspect ratio by just a few inches would make it perfectly square, which allows for you to rotate 90 degrees as well as flip, so the whole thing would wear out more evenly. As an extra bonus, this would make putting sheets on easier as there's no wrong way (short of inside-out, I guess).

niggler 14y ago
Wouldn't you then have to worry about fitted bedsheets and comforters?
- MartinCron 14y ago
  Absolutely, you would have to get new bedsheets, comforters, and beds to support the new form factor, but if it means replacing the mattress every n*2 years instead of every n, I'll come out ahead in the long term.
  - niggler 14y ago
    You would also need to change the entire ecosystem: if you use standard mattresses, then you can leverage the existing supply of sheets etc. Which is not to say it's a bad idea, but I imagine there's much more involved.
    - muraiki 14y ago
      You could sell the custom sized mattress at cost, but then charge a premium for the sheets. That way you make money off of the sheets, which wear out more quickly than a mattress anyways. Edit: I'm joking...
      - UnFleshedOne 14y ago
        Patent the square sheet form factor and you can lock out competitors and/or get hefty licensing fees. (as well as method and application of turning a sheet 90 degrees to hide coffee spots under pillows that you will then license at no cost to buyers of your brand of sheets while suing buyers of competitor's sheets)

nisbet 14y ago

The Author shouldn't have credited Dornob for the first picture of a dreamer, but the original project, which was done by students: http://www.behance.net/gallery/Dreamers/313618 http://www.behance.net/gallery/Dreamers/313618 Wasn't hard to find out - Dornob linked to it. So should everybody who uses other's images.

MattRogish 14y ago

"By the time a customer buys a mattress, it costs them ~74% more than the production cost of the product." I'm not arguing that the mattress industry isn't ripe for disruption, but very rarely is value delivered directly related to the cost of production. COGS is often difficult to accurately estimate (how much do you allocate R&D and other overhead?). An iPhone 5 may only contain $110 worth of silicon, but the value delivered is a lot more than the raw material cost. Jony Ive's salary represents a tiny fraction of each iPhone, but his design and influence represents a significant chunk of the profit.

msandford 14y ago
Someone there couldn't math very well. First you mark up 50%. Okay, a $100 cost mattress gets sold at $150 wholesale. Then the retailer marks it up 100%, to $300 total. That's 200% of the production cost, not 74%. What they meant to say is "production cost represents only 26% of the final cost of a mattress" but totally flubbed it.

ChuckMcM 14y ago

Clearly there is a distribution challenge (high transportation / storage costs) but I like the idea of disrupting them.

latchkey 14y ago
Keetsa has done a great job of helping this issue. They are foam mattresses and they suck the air out of them and stuff them into a surprisingly small box. It actually takes about a month for them to fully reinflate once unpacked.

twoodfin 14y ago

One advantage that the eyeglass market has is massive tax favorability in the U.S. I believe it's still the case that prescription eyeglasses can be bought with pre-tax dollars under a "use it or lose it" flex savings plan. I assume vision plans, which often include large purchase credits for eyeglasses at least biennially, are also tax deductible benefits. The result is often relatively price-insensitive consumers who "have" to spend $200+ on glasses lest they not be taking full advantage of their benefit.

johnzimmerman 14y ago

A couple of years ago I was looking for a Tempur-Pedic style mattress, but didn't want to spend thousands for one. After doing a lot of research I found Isoform mattresses. They are only available through the mail and have a 90-day return window if you're not happy. It would be very expensive to ship numerous mattresses, but the trial of one with no commitment to buy is pretty good.

Spooky23 14y ago

There are all sorts of outlets for reasonably priced, what you see is what you get mattresses: Sam's Club. Costco. Ikea. You can get a decent name brand mainstream mattress for ~$500. The problem with mattresses is that it's a product where you need a salesman. There's a bunch of different products that look similar, but have significant differences. You want to match the customer with what they want (or tell them what they want) so that they don't return the thing. Plus, there are some inherent logistical differences between a pair of eyeglasses that can be dropped in an envelope and shipped to anywhere in a day or two. Distribution and warehousing is expensive, the product needs to be delivered quickly (and picked up if the customer is displeased). There is a market for discount mattress sales outlets on the internet -- but just as online furniture and appliance outlets haven't "disrupted" the market, mattresses online are unlikely to either.

JPKab 14y ago
"There are all sorts of outlets for reasonably priced, what you see is what you get mattresses: Sam's Club. Costco. Ikea. You can get a decent name brand mainstream mattress for ~$500." I hear you, but who says that $500 is a reasonable price for a mattress? I'm sorry, but looking at the raw materials involved (don't even get me started on the frickin foam ones that don't even have springs: I'm looking at you Tempurpedic) it's clearly still a racket at the Sam's Club prices. If it is the raw materials, and not a rip off, then why do solid foam rubber mattresses cost more than mattresses containing moving parts and metal springs?
- unohoo 14y ago
  moving parts != comfort, which is paramount when it comes to mattresses. For me (and a lot of people I know), having springs is actually an issue. The springs wear off, the mattress begins to sag and not to mention the back aches. So its not as simple as -- simple foam mattresses should cost lower just because they have less raw materials than a spring coil one.
  - fryguy 14y ago
    I suppose you wouldn't like a waterbed, then, since it's essentially 1 giant moving part.

cloudwalking 14y ago

What is a "Google-esque margin"?

fowkswe 14y ago

The article hints at this, but Ikea solves all these problems. They have a small set of easily discernable mattress lines that are priced extremely well.

benatkin 14y ago

This needs "Mattresses" added to its database: http://nonstartr.com/ http://nonstartr.com/

silverbax88 14y ago

Having worked for one of the major mattress firms, there are truths in the article, but also some serious mistakes. The pricing structure, where they hide the models by using different names across retailers, is 100% true. They absolutely do that to prevent price shopping. The markup math is off. Mattresses are a high margin business, but most of those mattresses you see in specialty retailers are not built until someone buys one. You see, those mattresses are custom to the customer - from the tick (stitching pattern, which creates a firmer or softer surface) to the foam density, to EVERYTHING. It's like ordering a car where the car is measured to a specific person's height, weight and engine preference. You can imagine what a returned mattress is worth. Pretty much nothing. The margins have to cover all of that. Are the margins good? Yes. Would a small company be able to cut their margins to make one-off custom mattresses and compete? ...maybe. Finally, there are retail outlets - Costco, Ikea, that buy from those mattress companies in bulk and sell generic mattresses much cheaper. So, yeah, there's some market there but not as rich as some might think.

jackalope 14y ago
A used mattress is worth about the same as a used pair of underwear. This has nothing to do with custom options.
- silverbax88 14y ago
  That's what I meant, I just assumed people would understand that a custom-ordered mattress was 'used' once it has been taken home and returned no matter whether someone slept on it or not.
kinofcain 14y ago
What happens in a specialty high-end mattress store has very little to do with the bulk of the market: people buying mattresses at Macy's or one of the numerous regional mattress chains. I don't have any experience in the super-high-end, but have worked with the low-middle-high end that you get going to a "mattress store". Those models are definitely not built-to-order, they're sitting in a warehouse waiting to be delivered, even the $4k+ ones that are trying to compete with the custom shops. For the bulk of mattresses the margins mentioned in the article are conservative. What you're absolutely correct on, however, is that the cost of building a mattress doesn't represent the cost of running a mattress business. However, that's exactly what makes it ripe for disruption: streamline the rest of the business model and loot the manufacturing margins.

knes 14y ago

Someone should do a Warby Parker for Wheelchairs.

GFischer 14y ago
Filed under the "to do" section :) . More seriously, there are tons of niches that are underserved by the HN crowd and that need some disruption. Patio11's talk has inspired me a lot: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/03/26/software-for-underserved-markets/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/03/26/software-for-underserved...

tomjen3 14y ago

Maybe instead of focussing on selling mattresses you should focus on some sort of price comparison machine where you can enter what characteristica you want to (must have memory foam, must be this size, must be x, y and z) and then have the machine find close matches and display the variours prices? That way it won't matter if they fix the name, since you don't compare the mattresses on names, but on features.

raldi 14y ago

If you attempt this, I suggest you make a deal with a motel chain: When a customer checks into a room, they discover a little sign on the bed. The sign says, "Like this mattress? Get a brand-new copy delivered to your home for $X00 by visiting mattressr.com and entering bed code MEDIUMSOFT-23."

oostevo 14y ago
Some hotels do something similar -- chains sell the mattresses that they use in their hotels to consumers.[1] [1] http://www.whotelsthestore.com/item.asp?curr_item_id=5 http://www.whotelsthestore.com/item.asp?curr_item_id=5
- MartinCron 14y ago
  Westin makes a lot of fuss about how great their beds are and how you can buy the whole kit for your home. http://www.westin-hotelsathome.com/bed.aspx http://www.westin-hotelsathome.com/bed.aspx I was a little disappointed when I stayed in a Westin a few years ago, the bed was nice, but didn't live up to the high expectations.
  - hapless 14y ago
    Westin and 'W' hotels are the #2 and #1 "tier" hotels in the same company, Starwood. And it seems that the 'W' bed costs about $500 more than the "Westin" version. Fitting.
    - milesskorpen 14y ago
      Le Meridien and St. Regis are both higher-end than W hotels, and are also part of SPG.
      - rdl 14y ago
        St. Regis and Luxury Collection (some of which are branded as Sheratons, strangely...) are the highest, but there isn't a strict ordering of W, Westin, Le Meridien. I'd probably say it goes W, Le Meridien, Westin, but individual properties have a lot of variation. then Sheraton, then Element and Aloft, then Four Points. There are individual Sheratons which are worse than Four Points though. I prefer the Westin bed to the W bed; I've probably spent >100 nights in each.

geoka9 14y ago

Incidentally, $120 for a frame from Warby Parker (which is only "a couple of pieces of plastic and metal") is still too high IMO.

mikegirouard 14y ago
They also include prescription lenses as well.

eastdakota 14y ago

The core problems of the mattress industry (which are not present in eyeglasses industry) are the high costs of shipping and expensive warehouse costs. Given these, Bed In A Box (http://www.bedinabox.com/ http://www.bedinabox.com/) started with what seemed like it could be a potentially disruptive business model. They make-to-order mattresses (will even make custom sizes) and ship Tempurpedic-like memory foam mattresses directly to you via UPS. They suck all the air out of the mattresses so the boxes they come in are reasonably sized. Inside the box, there's a backpack-style sack which makes the mattress easier to carry. I hauled a Queen-sized mattress up four flights of stairs easily. I've purchased two mattresses through them and they are high quality and extremely comfortable. The first purchase they were easily 50% the cost of any quality mattress I could find elsewhere (including Costco, Sams Club, etc.), especially if you factored in the cost of delivery. I was surprised that when I went to buy another mattress from them their prices were markedly higher. I wonder if consumers were concerned that the low prices indicated low quality (not the case in my experience) or if they were unable to get the volume to sustain a low margin, high velocity business.

AJay17 14y ago
I've had a memory foam mattress from BedInABox for a few years now and I love it!

dirtae 14y ago

I was a big fan of The Original Mattress Factory when I lived in Pennsylvania. They manufacture their own mattresses and sell them direct to consumers. http://www.originalmattress.com/eliminating-the-middle-man http://www.originalmattress.com/eliminating-the-middle-man Unfortunately they don't have a presence on the West Coast.

daveman 14y ago

Like glasses, it's an interesting disruption opportunity due to the sheer size of demand. Just about 100% of the population sleeps on a mattress. It's hard to find other industries with so much penetration of demand and such inefficient competition. These days it doesn't seem like outbound distribution is too big of a deal (many mattresses are shippable in rolled or compressed-box form), it's the reverse logistics that are tricky. Once the genie is out of the bottle, good luck getting it back in. I'd love to be able to try out a mattress, like Zappos shoes or Bonobos pants, and return them for free if I'm not 100% happy. Maybe someone needs to invent an easily-compressable mattress so I can purchase online with total confidence.

kbrower 14y ago

I am working at a company that is trying to do just that. http://saatvamattress.com/ http://saatvamattress.com/

abnerg 14y ago
Say more sir. I like the non-toxic spin, pricing seems good, and yet, by the bios on your "about us" page it seems like you are very marketing oriented. That's fine, but perhaps enlighten the mass here on how you struggle or over come some of the objections raised above? Personally, I despite mattress retailers, but I also want to lie down on the thing before I commit to spending 30% of my life on it.

larrys 14y ago

For reference, here is a publicly traded retail mattress seller and it doesn't appear from their profile that they manufacture but only resell: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=MFRM+Key+Statistics http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=MFRM+Key+Statistics Take note of the margins, this isn't Microsoft sized here. They have almost 900 stores in 27 states. The article therefore is based on the idea of manufacturing your own mattress and selling web based. Unfortunately this would require warehouses around the country and a manufacturing facility in this country to make the mattresses. Although I'm not sure, I would imagine it would not be cost effective to ship a mattress from China (although I guess Mexico is possible) because of the size and weight. So this is not selling sunglasses or fashion eyewear which can easily be manufactured overseas as well as easily shipped (and returned).

ry0ohki 14y ago

Is it so bad that an industry has high margins? $500-1000 doesn't seem that expensive for a once every 10 years purchase. Mattress salesman gotta make a living! Seems very hypocritical while we make 90% margins on software.

pkulak 14y ago

It's really easy to spot the industries that have ridiculous margins; just find the shops that stay open forever, yet seem to make about 1-2 sales a day. I've seen mattress stores that seem to be able to sustain one full-time employee and about 20000 square feet of showroom on a couple purchases a day. Some with sunglass stores.

chiphanna 14y ago

I actually had this idea while shopping for mattresses a couple of months ago. It's nuts. I started thinking about the economics of a new mattress and couldn't get it to work out, financially. The biggest thing the big stores (like Mattress Firm, etc.) have is distribution and floor space. You need to try out a new mattress. There's nothing around that. After trying over 50+ mattresses, I realized that. There are so many different kinds and not a lot in common. You'd be tough pressed to find 10 people like like the same mattress. It'd be like buying a car without test driving it. That never happens. Then there's the economics of it: - Retail Price: ~$1,000 - Price of Materials: I'd estimate to be around $100. Labor, probably close to $25. - Modern Mattresses Companies put a TON into research/development/marketing. I'd estimate that to be about another $100 (on the low end) of the cost of the mattress. - Shipping, even freight, for something this size has got to cost at least $25. Right now, we're at $300 for a $1,000 item. - This is the (fairly) hard cost of making the item. I wouldn't be surprised if the Sealy's of the world sell it to the Mattress Firms for $500 and make a $200 profit (reasonable, to me). Then, to pay for even more marketing, floor space, employees and delivery service - you better believe that Mattress Firm demands a 50% margin. If we could somehow fix the distribution/store front option, we could get the price down - but that's the tough part. In case you were wondering, after all of my research, this is what I ended up buying: http://chip-hanna.com/how-to-find-the-perfect-mattress-for-you-and-sleep-like-the-dead/ http://chip-hanna.com/how-to-find-the-perfect-mattress-for-y... It was, honestly, the best money I've ever spent. A great bed makes all the difference. I'm not very sure of the legality of this, but one possible option is to have "If you like the Sealy Optimum Radiance, you'll like (insert new brand here)." That would drive people to the Mattress Firms of the world to try them out, but online to purchase (what happens with most products today anyway).

BroNamath 14y ago

I just got 5 frames from WP in the mail for "in home try on." The quality of the glasses are sup-par. They feel like frames you would find at the gas station. Yes the frames are stylish, but for anyone who has bought glasses their entire lives, you would know right away why these cost $95. There is a company that is the WP of mattresses: Ikea. The product is cheap and of low quality.

uptown 14y ago

Warby Parker's name has crossed my radar a few times in the past month, but I know nothing about what makes them special. Can somebody please enlighten me, because even after looking at their site, I still don't get what the big deal is. Then again, I've got 20/15 vision, and don't wear glasses, so I'm not their target market.

stretchwithme 14y ago

Wouldn't it be cool if a mattress came in 8 pieces so you can easily move it and flip it, and rearrange or even replace saggy sections? I'm sure the need for the entire thing to respond to your body the way it does probably prevents such a thing, but that sure would make it easier to own one.

olalonde 14y ago

I'm starting to wonder if priceonomics.com shouldn't pivot to become a full-fledged data driven publication. They have been publishing some amazingly high quality content lately.