6 ms·

Sure. I lived in the UK for 15 years, and have lived in the US for 2. In London, someone grabs your phone, threatens to take your watch with a machete, or trie

by nailer 1y ago

Sure. I lived in the UK for 15 years, and have lived in the US for 2. In London, someone grabs your phone, threatens to take your watch with a machete, or tries to rape your child. In New York someone marches down the street wanting to punch anyone that gets close. You let yourself be victimised and then report it. In Texas, they generally don't do these things because they might get shot. People defend themselves. In exchange, we accept there will be some unwanted violence. Kirk made an analogy here: we don't want road deaths, yet we don't ban cars. We don't want school shootings, but we don't ban guns. South Africans in London have similar perspectives regarding being able to defend themselves.

MisterMower 1y ago
Bingo. Same logic applies to car jackings or home invasions. Just the fact that the next potential victim could be armed and many states have laws that allow victims to use lethal force to defend themselves has a massive deterrent effect.
munksbeer 1y ago
London has got worse, that is true. Or at least, that is the impression you get from the media. Personally, I lived in central London for years and didn't feel unsafe. But the rest of the UK is extremely safe. Compared to the US? Very! And we don' have guns to defend ourselves. How does that work? And it is the same in many, many countries that don't have guns - a lot safer than the US. So that argument for guns just doesn't work. There must be something deeper to it. It must really be something that triggers a deeper response in people.
- johnisgood 1y ago
  London has gotten worse, do you think this is debatable today? Plus I do not think that the "I feel safe" has much merit. It has some, but not that much. What if I told you I did not feel safe in London? You felt safe in some area, I did not feel safe in some other. I do not think this conversation would be fruitful if we focused on this alone. Check the statistics[1] with regarding to robbing, knife crimes, homelessness, and so on. Perhaps that is a better starting point? I have been told by many locals to not wear an expensive watch around designer stores, or touristic hotspots because robbery happens on a daily basis, it depends on the time of the day and which day it is, of course. I have watched many YouTubers visiting London as well and they tell quite the story, too. [1] See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44914081 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44914081
- tim333 1y ago
  I live in central London. It mostly feels safe although I did get a phone snatched once. I also visited Austin Texas and spent a night staying in the center on 6th street and didn't feel safe. Aggressive black guys shouting and stuff. I googled that location when I got to the lodging and someone was shot there a year earlier. I guess it depends the area but I wouldn't say guns have made Texas a haven of peace.
- nailer 1y ago
  I had two terrorist attacks on my neighbourhood (London bridge) and one on the way to work (Westminster bridge) in fifteen years. If they tried stabbing people in Texas they’d have been shot.
  - munksbeer 1y ago
    You're a programmer. You understand statistics. I think your ideology is clouding your ability to talk about this honestly. From the very casual look I took, you're 4 times more likely to die as a result of violent crime in the US than the UK. So picking these incidents and citing them as a reason for owning guns, while ignoring the whole picture strikes me as dishonest.
    - johnisgood 1y ago
      I think "If they tried stabbing people in Texas they’d have been shot." was the most important part in the comment. In any case, I think the argument that was brought forward in favor of guns does not hold true universally for every places. For example, in Hungary, you do not need guns as a deterrent. Perhaps London would benefit from it, I actually have no idea and I do not know if I could have any way of telling.
      - munksbeer 1y ago
        > I think "If they tried stabbing people in Texas they’d have been shot." was the most important part in the comment. It is a cherry picked example and has nothing to contribute to the overall argument that gun ownership makes the US safe. Otherwise I can point to the many mass shootings in the US and say that would never have happened in the UK. I live in the UK. It is objectively safer to live in the UK where we are not allowed to own guns. To us, it is absurd to claim we need guns to be safer when we look at what actually happens in the US as a result of guns. I don't think this is really a controversial take. That is why the argument for gun ownership actually happens at a deeper level in the psyche.
        nailer 1y ago
- Slava_Propanei 1y ago
  [dead]

by nailer 1y ago

MisterMower 1y ago

Bingo. Same logic applies to car jackings or home invasions. Just the fact that the next potential victim could be armed and many states have laws that allow victims to use lethal force to defend themselves has a massive deterrent effect.

munksbeer 1y ago

London has got worse, that is true. Or at least, that is the impression you get from the media. Personally, I lived in central London for years and didn't feel unsafe. But the rest of the UK is extremely safe. Compared to the US? Very! And we don' have guns to defend ourselves. How does that work? And it is the same in many, many countries that don't have guns - a lot safer than the US. So that argument for guns just doesn't work. There must be something deeper to it. It must really be something that triggers a deeper response in people.

johnisgood 1y ago
London has gotten worse, do you think this is debatable today? Plus I do not think that the "I feel safe" has much merit. It has some, but not that much. What if I told you I did not feel safe in London? You felt safe in some area, I did not feel safe in some other. I do not think this conversation would be fruitful if we focused on this alone. Check the statistics[1] with regarding to robbing, knife crimes, homelessness, and so on. Perhaps that is a better starting point? I have been told by many locals to not wear an expensive watch around designer stores, or touristic hotspots because robbery happens on a daily basis, it depends on the time of the day and which day it is, of course. I have watched many YouTubers visiting London as well and they tell quite the story, too. [1] See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44914081 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44914081
tim333 1y ago
I live in central London. It mostly feels safe although I did get a phone snatched once. I also visited Austin Texas and spent a night staying in the center on 6th street and didn't feel safe. Aggressive black guys shouting and stuff. I googled that location when I got to the lodging and someone was shot there a year earlier. I guess it depends the area but I wouldn't say guns have made Texas a haven of peace.
nailer 1y ago
I had two terrorist attacks on my neighbourhood (London bridge) and one on the way to work (Westminster bridge) in fifteen years. If they tried stabbing people in Texas they’d have been shot.
- munksbeer 1y ago
  You're a programmer. You understand statistics. I think your ideology is clouding your ability to talk about this honestly. From the very casual look I took, you're 4 times more likely to die as a result of violent crime in the US than the UK. So picking these incidents and citing them as a reason for owning guns, while ignoring the whole picture strikes me as dishonest.
  - johnisgood 1y ago
    I think "If they tried stabbing people in Texas they’d have been shot." was the most important part in the comment. In any case, I think the argument that was brought forward in favor of guns does not hold true universally for every places. For example, in Hungary, you do not need guns as a deterrent. Perhaps London would benefit from it, I actually have no idea and I do not know if I could have any way of telling.
    - munksbeer 1y ago
      > I think "If they tried stabbing people in Texas they’d have been shot." was the most important part in the comment. It is a cherry picked example and has nothing to contribute to the overall argument that gun ownership makes the US safe. Otherwise I can point to the many mass shootings in the US and say that would never have happened in the UK. I live in the UK. It is objectively safer to live in the UK where we are not allowed to own guns. To us, it is absurd to claim we need guns to be safer when we look at what actually happens in the US as a result of guns. I don't think this is really a controversial take. That is why the argument for gun ownership actually happens at a deeper level in the psyche.
      - nailer 1y ago
Slava_Propanei 1y ago
[dead]