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> the price of allowing a population to arm themselves It is very hard for someone living in the UK to understand things from the US context. It just comes acr

> the price of allowing a population to arm themselves It is very hard for someone living in the UK to understand things from the US context. It just comes across as bizarre that people accept that school children will relatively frequently die for this. I do not feel impelled at all to own a gun. It isn't something that I ever think about. So when you say things like the phrase above, it is very alien to most people from the UK. We just don't understand what the benefits are of owning guns that justify the negatives. By the way, this isn't an attack, it is just me sharing a state of mind with you.

nailer 1y ago
Sure. I lived in the UK for 15 years, and have lived in the US for 2. In London, someone grabs your phone, threatens to take your watch with a machete, or tries to rape your child. In New York someone marches down the street wanting to punch anyone that gets close. You let yourself be victimised and then report it. In Texas, they generally don't do these things because they might get shot. People defend themselves. In exchange, we accept there will be some unwanted violence. Kirk made an analogy here: we don't want road deaths, yet we don't ban cars. We don't want school shootings, but we don't ban guns. South Africans in London have similar perspectives regarding being able to defend themselves.
- MisterMower 1y ago
  Bingo. Same logic applies to car jackings or home invasions. Just the fact that the next potential victim could be armed and many states have laws that allow victims to use lethal force to defend themselves has a massive deterrent effect.
- munksbeer 1y ago
  London has got worse, that is true. Or at least, that is the impression you get from the media. Personally, I lived in central London for years and didn't feel unsafe. But the rest of the UK is extremely safe. Compared to the US? Very! And we don' have guns to defend ourselves. How does that work? And it is the same in many, many countries that don't have guns - a lot safer than the US. So that argument for guns just doesn't work. There must be something deeper to it. It must really be something that triggers a deeper response in people.
  - johnisgood 1y ago
    London has gotten worse, do you think this is debatable today? Plus I do not think that the "I feel safe" has much merit. It has some, but not that much. What if I told you I did not feel safe in London? You felt safe in some area, I did not feel safe in some other. I do not think this conversation would be fruitful if we focused on this alone. Check the statistics[1] with regarding to robbing, knife crimes, homelessness, and so on. Perhaps that is a better starting point? I have been told by many locals to not wear an expensive watch around designer stores, or touristic hotspots because robbery happens on a daily basis, it depends on the time of the day and which day it is, of course. I have watched many YouTubers visiting London as well and they tell quite the story, too. [1] See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44914081 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44914081
  - tim333 1y ago
    I live in central London. It mostly feels safe although I did get a phone snatched once. I also visited Austin Texas and spent a night staying in the center on 6th street and didn't feel safe. Aggressive black guys shouting and stuff. I googled that location when I got to the lodging and someone was shot there a year earlier. I guess it depends the area but I wouldn't say guns have made Texas a haven of peace.
  - nailer 1y ago
    I had two terrorist attacks on my neighbourhood (London bridge) and one on the way to work (Westminster bridge) in fifteen years. If they tried stabbing people in Texas they’d have been shot.
    - munksbeer 1y ago
      You're a programmer. You understand statistics. I think your ideology is clouding your ability to talk about this honestly. From the very casual look I took, you're 4 times more likely to die as a result of violent crime in the US than the UK. So picking these incidents and citing them as a reason for owning guns, while ignoring the whole picture strikes me as dishonest.

nailer 1y ago

Sure. I lived in the UK for 15 years, and have lived in the US for 2. In London, someone grabs your phone, threatens to take your watch with a machete, or tries to rape your child. In New York someone marches down the street wanting to punch anyone that gets close. You let yourself be victimised and then report it. In Texas, they generally don't do these things because they might get shot. People defend themselves. In exchange, we accept there will be some unwanted violence. Kirk made an analogy here: we don't want road deaths, yet we don't ban cars. We don't want school shootings, but we don't ban guns. South Africans in London have similar perspectives regarding being able to defend themselves.

MisterMower 1y ago
Bingo. Same logic applies to car jackings or home invasions. Just the fact that the next potential victim could be armed and many states have laws that allow victims to use lethal force to defend themselves has a massive deterrent effect.
munksbeer 1y ago
London has got worse, that is true. Or at least, that is the impression you get from the media. Personally, I lived in central London for years and didn't feel unsafe. But the rest of the UK is extremely safe. Compared to the US? Very! And we don' have guns to defend ourselves. How does that work? And it is the same in many, many countries that don't have guns - a lot safer than the US. So that argument for guns just doesn't work. There must be something deeper to it. It must really be something that triggers a deeper response in people.
- johnisgood 1y ago
  London has gotten worse, do you think this is debatable today? Plus I do not think that the "I feel safe" has much merit. It has some, but not that much. What if I told you I did not feel safe in London? You felt safe in some area, I did not feel safe in some other. I do not think this conversation would be fruitful if we focused on this alone. Check the statistics[1] with regarding to robbing, knife crimes, homelessness, and so on. Perhaps that is a better starting point? I have been told by many locals to not wear an expensive watch around designer stores, or touristic hotspots because robbery happens on a daily basis, it depends on the time of the day and which day it is, of course. I have watched many YouTubers visiting London as well and they tell quite the story, too. [1] See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44914081 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44914081
- tim333 1y ago
  I live in central London. It mostly feels safe although I did get a phone snatched once. I also visited Austin Texas and spent a night staying in the center on 6th street and didn't feel safe. Aggressive black guys shouting and stuff. I googled that location when I got to the lodging and someone was shot there a year earlier. I guess it depends the area but I wouldn't say guns have made Texas a haven of peace.
- nailer 1y ago
  I had two terrorist attacks on my neighbourhood (London bridge) and one on the way to work (Westminster bridge) in fifteen years. If they tried stabbing people in Texas they’d have been shot.
  - munksbeer 1y ago
    You're a programmer. You understand statistics. I think your ideology is clouding your ability to talk about this honestly. From the very casual look I took, you're 4 times more likely to die as a result of violent crime in the US than the UK. So picking these incidents and citing them as a reason for owning guns, while ignoring the whole picture strikes me as dishonest.