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As a guy who grew up in an impoverished, rural family and received Pell grants and federal loans for my college costs, can someone explain to me why articles li

by JPKab 14y ago

As a guy who grew up in an impoverished, rural family and received Pell grants and federal loans for my college costs, can someone explain to me why articles like this talk about students not being able to go to college without the donation? Has something changed since 1999 when I, with zero money or savings in my family, was able to go to college on government loans/grants based on the fact that I got in due to good grades/etc? (IF SOMETHING HAS CHANGED, AND POOR KIDS WITH GOOD GRADES ARE UNABLE TO GET FEDERAL LOANS AND GRANTS, THEN I AM GOING TO DO WHATEVER I, AS AN AVERAGE MIDDLE CLASS CITIZEN, CAN DO TO FIX THIS.) I realize that we've had an economic collapse, and I think this is a fantastic program, but statements like those in the article distract from the fact that poor areas of this nation fail not because students can't AFFORD college, but because they can't GET IN, due to substandard educations and (to some degree) bad parenting. Regarding my comment on bad parenting, before people crucify me for blaming the victim, I assure you that a lot of poor, uneducated parents actively interfere (knowingly or not) with their children's educational chances. They do this mainly through ignorance (leaving TV on at night in child's room, never reading to them when they are young, not helping with homework, putting children to bed too late, etc.) I've watched this happen with most of my friend's growing up.

SatvikBeri 14y ago
Ramit Sethi argues that the belief that you can't go to college due to a lack of money is largely misplaced, at least in the USA. I'm sure there are edge cases where it really is impossible to get funding, but I know several people who went to very expensive schools and got it nearly all paid through various scholarships. NB: most of these scholarships were not granted by the college itself, but by an outside agency, whereas most people I know seem to only apply for scholarships through the college. 1: http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/college-at-stanford-is-now-effectively-free-so-whats-your-excuse/ http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/college-at-stanfor... 2: http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/some-people-think-theres-only-a-limited-amount-of-money/ http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/some-people-think-...
- noahc 14y ago
  I wish someone would have told me about all this starting my freshman year of high school. Being from a poor rural family, I had no idea that these opportunities existed and the first thing I looked at was price of school over anything else. So, I only applied to one school which to be honest seemed unreasonably expensive at the time. I think a huge part of the problem is not so much the resources, but the mentality that surrounds the poor. Having grown up poor, I was focused on being cheap, not on value. Of course, no one every said, "Hey, with your 3.3 GPA maybe you should apply somewhere else". I also only took the ACT once after having been away at summer camp and only getting 3-4 hours of sleep each night for the past week, and no idea until later that people retook it. The other aspect, is that in small rural towns it has been my experience, that the guidance counselors who do the college admissions have no idea what to do with a student who doesn't want to go to the traditional schools, which in my case were the 3 nearest community colleges, the University of Nebraska, University of Iowa, or Iowa State. Ramit, would tell you that just because the information is out there, that isn't enough. In regard to this, it is absolutely true.
BCM43 14y ago
Has something changed since 1999 when I, with zero money or savings in my family, was able to go to college on government loans/grants based on the fact that I got in due to good grades/etc? Yes. College tuition costs have been rising way faster than the rate of inflation. Only one source, a search engine will find you many more. http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Articles/Education_Inflation.asp http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Articles/Educat...
bkmartin 14y ago
Your story is very similar to mine. I too was a poor farmers child growing up. But thanks to Pell Grants, Federal Student Loans, and my parents vision for me, I was able to go to college. My parents greatest vision for me was that I would be able to do better than them. That was the goal that was drilled into me, that I could do better. That I had a blank slate and could make myself whatever I wanted. And they made sure I was keeping up with my grades and not going out and getting in trouble. I believe its very true that a bad or ignorant home life is probably one of the greatest disadvantages a child can have when it comes to education. I don't have the studies or facts handy right now, but from what I've read and seen myself, English as a second language and disengaged parents are far more responsible for poor test scores and student failures than the teachers are. Of course there are bad teachers, just like any other profession, but I would guess that the number of incompetent and bad teachers is far lower than test scores would suggest.
AutoCorrect 14y ago
Because the people that wrote the article believed that children were helpless. Intrinsically motivated people will almost always find a way to overcome obstacles. Those extrinsically motivated need help to overcome obstacles. Government school promotes extrinsic motivation (go to school, get a good job. Get that A on that test!).

by JPKab 14y ago

SatvikBeri 14y ago

Ramit Sethi argues that the belief that you can't go to college due to a lack of money is largely misplaced, at least in the USA. I'm sure there are edge cases where it really is impossible to get funding, but I know several people who went to very expensive schools and got it nearly all paid through various scholarships. NB: most of these scholarships were not granted by the college itself, but by an outside agency, whereas most people I know seem to only apply for scholarships through the college. 1: http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/college-at-stanford-is-now-effectively-free-so-whats-your-excuse/ http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/college-at-stanfor... 2: http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/some-people-think-theres-only-a-limited-amount-of-money/ http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/some-people-think-...

noahc 14y ago
I wish someone would have told me about all this starting my freshman year of high school. Being from a poor rural family, I had no idea that these opportunities existed and the first thing I looked at was price of school over anything else. So, I only applied to one school which to be honest seemed unreasonably expensive at the time. I think a huge part of the problem is not so much the resources, but the mentality that surrounds the poor. Having grown up poor, I was focused on being cheap, not on value. Of course, no one every said, "Hey, with your 3.3 GPA maybe you should apply somewhere else". I also only took the ACT once after having been away at summer camp and only getting 3-4 hours of sleep each night for the past week, and no idea until later that people retook it. The other aspect, is that in small rural towns it has been my experience, that the guidance counselors who do the college admissions have no idea what to do with a student who doesn't want to go to the traditional schools, which in my case were the 3 nearest community colleges, the University of Nebraska, University of Iowa, or Iowa State. Ramit, would tell you that just because the information is out there, that isn't enough. In regard to this, it is absolutely true.

BCM43 14y ago

Has something changed since 1999 when I, with zero money or savings in my family, was able to go to college on government loans/grants based on the fact that I got in due to good grades/etc? Yes. College tuition costs have been rising way faster than the rate of inflation. Only one source, a search engine will find you many more. http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Articles/Education_Inflation.asp http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Articles/Educat...

bkmartin 14y ago

Your story is very similar to mine. I too was a poor farmers child growing up. But thanks to Pell Grants, Federal Student Loans, and my parents vision for me, I was able to go to college. My parents greatest vision for me was that I would be able to do better than them. That was the goal that was drilled into me, that I could do better. That I had a blank slate and could make myself whatever I wanted. And they made sure I was keeping up with my grades and not going out and getting in trouble. I believe its very true that a bad or ignorant home life is probably one of the greatest disadvantages a child can have when it comes to education. I don't have the studies or facts handy right now, but from what I've read and seen myself, English as a second language and disengaged parents are far more responsible for poor test scores and student failures than the teachers are. Of course there are bad teachers, just like any other profession, but I would guess that the number of incompetent and bad teachers is far lower than test scores would suggest.

AutoCorrect 14y ago

Because the people that wrote the article believed that children were helpless. Intrinsically motivated people will almost always find a way to overcome obstacles. Those extrinsically motivated need help to overcome obstacles. Government school promotes extrinsic motivation (go to school, get a good job. Get that A on that test!).