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For one thing, I have internal state that continues to exist when I'm not responding to text input; I have some (limited) access to my own internal state and ca

For one thing, I have internal state that continues to exist when I'm not responding to text input; I have some (limited) access to my own internal state and can reason about it (metacognition). So far, LLMs do not, and even when they claim they are, they are hallucinating https://transformer-circuits.pub/2025/attribution-graphs/biology.html#dives-cot https://transformer-circuits.pub/2025/attribution-graphs/bio...

coldtea 1y ago
>For one thing, I have internal state that continues to exist when I'm not responding to text input Do you? Or do you just have memory and are run on a short loop?
- shakna 1y ago
  Whilst all the choices you make tend to be in the grey matter, the rest of you does have internal state - mostly in your white matter. https://scisimple.com/en/articles/2025-03-22-white-matter-a-key-player-in-brain-function--a30p1n2 https://scisimple.com/en/articles/2025-03-22-white-matter-a-...
  - coldtea 1y ago
    >Whilst all the choices you make tend to be in the grey matter, the rest of you does have internal state - mostly in your white matter. Yeah, but so? Does the substrate of the memory ...matter? (pun intended) When I wrote memory above it could refer to all the state we keep, regardless if it's gray matter, white matter, the gut "second brain", etc.
    - shakna 1y ago
      As the article above attempts to show, there's no loop. Memory and state isn't static. You are always processing, evolving. That's part of why organizational complexity is one of the underpinnings for consciousness. Because who you are is a constant evolution.
    - ForHackernews 1y ago
      Human brains are not computers. There is no "memory" separate from the "processor". Your hippocampus is not the tape for a Turing machine. Everything about biology is complex, messy and analogue. The complexity is fractal: every neuron in your brain is different from every other one, there's further variation within individual neurons, and likely differential expression at the protein level. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11711151/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11711151/
bhhaskin 1y ago
I completely agree. LLMs only do call and response. Without the call there is no response.
- recursive 1y ago
  Would a human born into a sensory deprivation chamber ever make a call?
  - ForHackernews 1y ago
    Very likely a human born in sensory deprivation would not develop consciousness as we understand it. Infants deprived of socialization exhibit severe developmental impairment, and even a Romanian orphanage is a less deprived environment than an isolation chamber. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10977996/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10977996/

coldtea 1y ago

>For one thing, I have internal state that continues to exist when I'm not responding to text input Do you? Or do you just have memory and are run on a short loop?

shakna 1y ago
Whilst all the choices you make tend to be in the grey matter, the rest of you does have internal state - mostly in your white matter. https://scisimple.com/en/articles/2025-03-22-white-matter-a-key-player-in-brain-function--a30p1n2 https://scisimple.com/en/articles/2025-03-22-white-matter-a-...
- coldtea 1y ago
  >Whilst all the choices you make tend to be in the grey matter, the rest of you does have internal state - mostly in your white matter. Yeah, but so? Does the substrate of the memory ...matter? (pun intended) When I wrote memory above it could refer to all the state we keep, regardless if it's gray matter, white matter, the gut "second brain", etc.
  - shakna 1y ago
    As the article above attempts to show, there's no loop. Memory and state isn't static. You are always processing, evolving. That's part of why organizational complexity is one of the underpinnings for consciousness. Because who you are is a constant evolution.
  - ForHackernews 1y ago
    Human brains are not computers. There is no "memory" separate from the "processor". Your hippocampus is not the tape for a Turing machine. Everything about biology is complex, messy and analogue. The complexity is fractal: every neuron in your brain is different from every other one, there's further variation within individual neurons, and likely differential expression at the protein level. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11711151/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11711151/

bhhaskin 1y ago

I completely agree. LLMs only do call and response. Without the call there is no response.

recursive 1y ago
Would a human born into a sensory deprivation chamber ever make a call?
- ForHackernews 1y ago
  Very likely a human born in sensory deprivation would not develop consciousness as we understand it. Infants deprived of socialization exhibit severe developmental impairment, and even a Romanian orphanage is a less deprived environment than an isolation chamber. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10977996/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10977996/