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This is a really disingenuous and biased selection of sources. One could find systemic examples of inflammatory rethoric from almost anyone in US politics: Bide

This is a really disingenuous and biased selection of sources. One could find systemic examples of inflammatory rethoric from almost anyone in US politics: Biden, Obama, Trump, Waltz, Harris, DeSantis, Newsome, etc. Ironically, assassinated Charlie Kirk was one of the most reserved US public figures in this regard.

hellotheretoday 1y ago
you can find inflammatory rhetoric from any human being ever, that is obviously true, but it’s also disingenuous to act like trump is not the most inflammatory and devisive leader America has had in modern history. Look at how he responded to the murders of the Hortmans in Minnesota relative to how Biden responded to his assassination attempt or how most (if not all) democratic lawmakers are responding to this And while political violence is abhorrent Kirk was no angel. In the aftermath of this his views on gun violence have been echoed widely but he is a man that called for political opponents (namely Joe Biden) to face the death penalty [0]. That page outlines much more. So are his calls for political violence including the death of his opponents, inflammatory language like slurs[0], encouraging violence against immigrants and transgender athletes[0] “reserved”? I would hate to see what you consider out of line then [0] https://www.mediamatters.org/charlie-kirk/charlie-kirk-has-history-violent-and-bigoted-rhetoric-he-was-first-guest-california https://www.mediamatters.org/charlie-kirk/charlie-kirk-has-h...
- Andrew_nenakhov 1y ago
  > it’s also disingenuous to act like trump is not the most inflammatory and devisive leader America has had in modern history. I'm not from the US, and do not have a horse in this fight, but I'm pretty sure that there are a lot of people in the US who believe that the most inflammatory and divisive leader America had in modern history was Obama. The main difference between Trump and Obama is that Trump is teared apart by the media, while Obama was cuddled by it. (btw, speaking from my non-US experience, when a leader is cuddled by the press, it is a bad sign, not a good one)
  - bluecheese452 1y ago
    The press does not “cuddle”. Did the Kremlim cut the budget for English classes?
    - Andrew_nenakhov 1y ago
      Of course, the press does cuddle its darlings. Compare any first-term Trump's press conference with Biden's press conference: a pack of wolves that screamed and shouted suddenly morphed into cute fawning puppies: "what kind of ice cream do you like, mr president?" Regarding your accusation that I work for Kremlin, you should be ashamed of yourself to say such things to a person who was literally beaten by Putin's polizai for protesting his policies. In your simplistic mindset, anyone who has a differing opinion from you surely must be a paid troll working for evil people. It is very fitting that you exhibit this attitude in a discussion about a person who was killed for his views. Should I be shot, too? I surely have it coming, right?
      - bluecheese452 1y ago
        The word you are looking for is coddle, not cuddle. You cuddle a pet or a spouse. You coddle your favorite politician with preferential coverage. Good on you for protesting his policies. But maybe don’t spread his propaganda for free? I never celebrated, excused or wished death on anyone. Shame on you for implying that.
        Andrew_nenakhov 1y ago
        No, thank you, but the word I needed was something that would describe a warm, loving embrace, like when you take a pet in your arms and caress it (I even pushed this metaphor further in the next comment, about loving puppies), and I believe that "cuddle" is the exact word for that.
        bluecheese452 1y ago
        I guarantee you no native speaker would ever use the word cuddle like you did. That is why it was so jarring to read.
johnnyanmac 1y ago
>One could find systemic examples of inflammatory rethoric from almost anyone in US politics Show me one example of any of those figures you listed inciting violence. I'm waiting. "inflammatory rhetoric" is not the same as saying "the Left is a national security problem"
- Andrew_nenakhov 1y ago
  Ok, since you are waiting, I'll spend a few minutes fetching you easily available quotes. Obama: - "If they bring a knife to the fight, we're going to bring a gun." [0] Biden: - "If we were in high school, I'd take him behind the gym and beat the hell out of him" [1] - "We’re done talking about the debate, it’s time to put Trump in a bullseye." [2] - the whole "Darth Biden" event speech was filled with statements framing political opponents as enemies of the country, kinda sinister from the head of the most powerful state in the world, no? ("Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans represent an extremism that threatens the very foundations of our republic.", etc) [3] Waltz: - "When it’s an adult like Donald Trump, you bully the shit out of him back." [4] - "I tell you that... because we need to whip his butt and put this guy behind us." [5] Newsome: - "But right now, with all due respect, we’re walking down a damn different path. We’re fighting fire with fire. And we’re gonna punch these sons of bitches in the mouth." [6] (apologies for the Twitter link, didn't find direct video elsewhere) Would that be enough? [0]: https://www.factcheck.org/2011/01/obama-guns-and-the-untouchables/ https://www.factcheck.org/2011/01/obama-guns-and-the-untouch... [1]: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/21/politics/Joe-biden-donald-trump/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/21/politics/Joe-biden-donald... [2]: https://nypost.com/2024/07/15/us-news/biden-defends-bullseye-remark-about-trump-during-nbc-interview-with-lester-holt-i-didnt-say-crosshairs/ https://nypost.com/2024/07/15/us-news/biden-defends-bullseye... [3]: https://www.newsweek.com/read-everything-joe-biden-said-his-soul-nation-speech-1739192 https://www.newsweek.com/read-everything-joe-biden-said-his-... [4]: https://www.startribune.com/in-key-2028-state-tim-walz-says-democrats-need-to-beat-the-hell-out-of-these-dictators/601364648 https://www.startribune.com/in-key-2028-state-tim-walz-says-... [5]: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/tim-walz-breaks-free-bubble-rcna175726 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/tim-walz-brea... [6]: https://x.com/amuse/status/1958827049348407350 https://x.com/amuse/status/1958827049348407350
etblg 1y ago
> One could find systemic examples of inflammatory rethoric from almost anyone in US politics: Biden, Obama, Trump, Waltz, Harris, DeSantis, Newsome, etc. Damn, sounds like more terrible people who encourage violence then, wish they didn't encourage it either, kinda sounds like a problem America and its politics has in general.
bertil 1y ago
You would struggle to find a single example for any of those. Find two inflammatory quotes for each. There hasn’t been a day in the last decade that Trump wasn’t making the news for a new insanely inflammatory remark—including in the last 48 hours. To help you remember when that was: that’s when he called for War on an American city, using the visual language of Apocalypse Now, a movie about war crimes. That was in the same breath as his new “Secretary of War” detailing that war would be violent, pro-active and excessive. This is true for almost everyone in his cabinet: daily dehumanizing remarks, threats, calls to attack. One vs. many thousands: There are three to four orders of magnitude of difference in how inflammatory each side is. You want to prove me wrong? Give me one date, a single date in the last ten years and if I can’t find Trump publicly insulting to someone that day, I’ll concede. The only examples of call to violence you can find are people quoting Trump and his enablers, or mocking their style. Those horrible things you read? Those insanely callous dismissal of Charlie Kirk, victim of gun violence? Those are quotes of Charlie Kirk, reacting to mass shootings. You are wagging your finger and scream "Here’s a monster!" but what you are looking at is a mirror.
- Andrew_nenakhov 1y ago
  See in another branch. However, regarding this: > There are three to four orders of magnitude of difference in how inflammatory each side is. Not really. One can only agree with this statement if he considers that calling Trump and his supporters Nazis, fascists, racists, etc, is not an inflammatory rhetoric, but a totally acceptable objective truth that just truthfully describes them. (Btw, do Nazis deserve to be shot on sight?) However, if one doesn't consider this an objective truth, but a violent dehumanizing rhetorics, then suddenly he finds that one side routinely smears the other in the worst ways possible, and that the total amount of such rhetoric vastly drowns the messaging from another side. > You are wagging your finger and scream "Here’s a monster!" but what you are looking at is a mirror. That's a nice straw man you made. Please, refrain from messaging me again, if you don't plan to argue in good faith.
  - bertil 1y ago
    [flagged]
solid_fuel 1y ago
> One could find systemic examples of inflammatory rethoric from almost anyone in US politics Can you link some examples?
- Andrew_nenakhov 1y ago
  Sure, in another branch: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45223772 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45223772

hellotheretoday 1y ago

you can find inflammatory rhetoric from any human being ever, that is obviously true, but it’s also disingenuous to act like trump is not the most inflammatory and devisive leader America has had in modern history. Look at how he responded to the murders of the Hortmans in Minnesota relative to how Biden responded to his assassination attempt or how most (if not all) democratic lawmakers are responding to this And while political violence is abhorrent Kirk was no angel. In the aftermath of this his views on gun violence have been echoed widely but he is a man that called for political opponents (namely Joe Biden) to face the death penalty [0]. That page outlines much more. So are his calls for political violence including the death of his opponents, inflammatory language like slurs[0], encouraging violence against immigrants and transgender athletes[0] “reserved”? I would hate to see what you consider out of line then [0] https://www.mediamatters.org/charlie-kirk/charlie-kirk-has-history-violent-and-bigoted-rhetoric-he-was-first-guest-california https://www.mediamatters.org/charlie-kirk/charlie-kirk-has-h...

Andrew_nenakhov 1y ago
> it’s also disingenuous to act like trump is not the most inflammatory and devisive leader America has had in modern history. I'm not from the US, and do not have a horse in this fight, but I'm pretty sure that there are a lot of people in the US who believe that the most inflammatory and divisive leader America had in modern history was Obama. The main difference between Trump and Obama is that Trump is teared apart by the media, while Obama was cuddled by it. (btw, speaking from my non-US experience, when a leader is cuddled by the press, it is a bad sign, not a good one)
- bluecheese452 1y ago
  The press does not “cuddle”. Did the Kremlim cut the budget for English classes?
  - Andrew_nenakhov 1y ago
    Of course, the press does cuddle its darlings. Compare any first-term Trump's press conference with Biden's press conference: a pack of wolves that screamed and shouted suddenly morphed into cute fawning puppies: "what kind of ice cream do you like, mr president?" Regarding your accusation that I work for Kremlin, you should be ashamed of yourself to say such things to a person who was literally beaten by Putin's polizai for protesting his policies. In your simplistic mindset, anyone who has a differing opinion from you surely must be a paid troll working for evil people. It is very fitting that you exhibit this attitude in a discussion about a person who was killed for his views. Should I be shot, too? I surely have it coming, right?
    - bluecheese452 1y ago
      The word you are looking for is coddle, not cuddle. You cuddle a pet or a spouse. You coddle your favorite politician with preferential coverage. Good on you for protesting his policies. But maybe don’t spread his propaganda for free? I never celebrated, excused or wished death on anyone. Shame on you for implying that.
      - Andrew_nenakhov 1y ago
        No, thank you, but the word I needed was something that would describe a warm, loving embrace, like when you take a pet in your arms and caress it (I even pushed this metaphor further in the next comment, about loving puppies), and I believe that "cuddle" is the exact word for that.
        bluecheese452 1y ago
        I guarantee you no native speaker would ever use the word cuddle like you did. That is why it was so jarring to read.

johnnyanmac 1y ago

>One could find systemic examples of inflammatory rethoric from almost anyone in US politics Show me one example of any of those figures you listed inciting violence. I'm waiting. "inflammatory rhetoric" is not the same as saying "the Left is a national security problem"

Andrew_nenakhov 1y ago
Ok, since you are waiting, I'll spend a few minutes fetching you easily available quotes. Obama: - "If they bring a knife to the fight, we're going to bring a gun." [0] Biden: - "If we were in high school, I'd take him behind the gym and beat the hell out of him" [1] - "We’re done talking about the debate, it’s time to put Trump in a bullseye." [2] - the whole "Darth Biden" event speech was filled with statements framing political opponents as enemies of the country, kinda sinister from the head of the most powerful state in the world, no? ("Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans represent an extremism that threatens the very foundations of our republic.", etc) [3] Waltz: - "When it’s an adult like Donald Trump, you bully the shit out of him back." [4] - "I tell you that... because we need to whip his butt and put this guy behind us." [5] Newsome: - "But right now, with all due respect, we’re walking down a damn different path. We’re fighting fire with fire. And we’re gonna punch these sons of bitches in the mouth." [6] (apologies for the Twitter link, didn't find direct video elsewhere) Would that be enough? [0]: https://www.factcheck.org/2011/01/obama-guns-and-the-untouchables/ https://www.factcheck.org/2011/01/obama-guns-and-the-untouch... [1]: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/21/politics/Joe-biden-donald-trump/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/21/politics/Joe-biden-donald... [2]: https://nypost.com/2024/07/15/us-news/biden-defends-bullseye-remark-about-trump-during-nbc-interview-with-lester-holt-i-didnt-say-crosshairs/ https://nypost.com/2024/07/15/us-news/biden-defends-bullseye... [3]: https://www.newsweek.com/read-everything-joe-biden-said-his-soul-nation-speech-1739192 https://www.newsweek.com/read-everything-joe-biden-said-his-... [4]: https://www.startribune.com/in-key-2028-state-tim-walz-says-democrats-need-to-beat-the-hell-out-of-these-dictators/601364648 https://www.startribune.com/in-key-2028-state-tim-walz-says-... [5]: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/tim-walz-breaks-free-bubble-rcna175726 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/tim-walz-brea... [6]: https://x.com/amuse/status/1958827049348407350 https://x.com/amuse/status/1958827049348407350

etblg 1y ago

> One could find systemic examples of inflammatory rethoric from almost anyone in US politics: Biden, Obama, Trump, Waltz, Harris, DeSantis, Newsome, etc. Damn, sounds like more terrible people who encourage violence then, wish they didn't encourage it either, kinda sounds like a problem America and its politics has in general.

bertil 1y ago

You would struggle to find a single example for any of those. Find two inflammatory quotes for each. There hasn’t been a day in the last decade that Trump wasn’t making the news for a new insanely inflammatory remark—including in the last 48 hours. To help you remember when that was: that’s when he called for War on an American city, using the visual language of Apocalypse Now, a movie about war crimes. That was in the same breath as his new “Secretary of War” detailing that war would be violent, pro-active and excessive. This is true for almost everyone in his cabinet: daily dehumanizing remarks, threats, calls to attack. One vs. many thousands: There are three to four orders of magnitude of difference in how inflammatory each side is. You want to prove me wrong? Give me one date, a single date in the last ten years and if I can’t find Trump publicly insulting to someone that day, I’ll concede. The only examples of call to violence you can find are people quoting Trump and his enablers, or mocking their style. Those horrible things you read? Those insanely callous dismissal of Charlie Kirk, victim of gun violence? Those are quotes of Charlie Kirk, reacting to mass shootings. You are wagging your finger and scream "Here’s a monster!" but what you are looking at is a mirror.

Andrew_nenakhov 1y ago
See in another branch. However, regarding this: > There are three to four orders of magnitude of difference in how inflammatory each side is. Not really. One can only agree with this statement if he considers that calling Trump and his supporters Nazis, fascists, racists, etc, is not an inflammatory rhetoric, but a totally acceptable objective truth that just truthfully describes them. (Btw, do Nazis deserve to be shot on sight?) However, if one doesn't consider this an objective truth, but a violent dehumanizing rhetorics, then suddenly he finds that one side routinely smears the other in the worst ways possible, and that the total amount of such rhetoric vastly drowns the messaging from another side. > You are wagging your finger and scream "Here’s a monster!" but what you are looking at is a mirror. That's a nice straw man you made. Please, refrain from messaging me again, if you don't plan to argue in good faith.
- bertil 1y ago
  [flagged]

solid_fuel 1y ago

> One could find systemic examples of inflammatory rethoric from almost anyone in US politics Can you link some examples?

Andrew_nenakhov 1y ago
Sure, in another branch: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45223772 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45223772