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There was a school shooting on the same day as Kirk's death: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/students-wounded-shooting-colorado-evergreen-high-school-rcna2

• lunarboy 1y ago
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  • diogenescynic 1y ago
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    • lunarboy 1y ago
      You're really trying to convince me people care about kids but we've been having school shooting for 30 years? And that the length or frequency of events makes them okay, or not worth mentioning? So 30 years of more frequent assassinations should be make similar types of events okay? To use "you're probably one of those" and "argue in good faith" in the same comment is pretty wild work.
      • diogenescynic 1y ago
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  • pxc 1y ago
    I think the world was a worse place for Kirk's influence, whatever it amounted to. I think the circumstances of his death and the reporting on it are deeply ironic. But I can't feel joy at his murder. I just feel sick and anxious. What I feel is nausea about the ongoing destabilization of American life and institutions. What I feel is worry about the danger so many people are in right now, the backlash this event is likely to cause, and the way this will fuel an acceleration of Trump's illegal military occupations of American cities whose citizens or officials Trump finds politically disagreeable. And in the back of my mind I also wonder what will become of Kirk's children, who are very young. But I can't summon either glee or grief. All I've got is irony and deep unease, at least for now.
    • nailer 1y ago
      I disagree with him about gun ownership, but he didn’t want to disarm in order to prevent all gun deaths. He made the point at the time that we don’t take cars off the road to stop car deaths. It’s a reasonable point. Re: DC national guard, from what I’ve seen rough neighbourhoods in DC were very happy with additional policing, particularly in gang areas, while middle class people who were less affected seemed mainly angry about it.
  • johnnyanmac 1y ago
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  • dttze 1y ago
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    • nailer 1y ago
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      • dttze 1y ago
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        • nailer 1y ago
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          • dang 1y ago
            If you keep doing this we will ban you. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45253790 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45253790.
          • dttze 1y ago
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            • dang 1y ago
              We've banned this account for egregiously breaking the site guidelines and using HN exclusively for political battle. Those things aren't ok here, regardless of what you're battling for or against. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
      • Forgeties79 1y ago
        And yet for some reason Melissa Hortman and her husband (as well as their dog) continue to be barely acknowledged by the White House/right despite being brutally murdered in their own home - they were democrat lawmakers in MN for those who are unfamiliar with this horrible story. Kirk made a substantial portion of his living trolling people and fomenting hostility between people of different political ideologies. He said gay people should be stoned to death. He did not deserve to die, I do not celebrate his murder. But I will not celebrate the way he lived his life, let alone indulge this flagrant (and tasteless) attempt by the GOP to make him a saintly martyr.
  • michtzik 1y ago
    > I've never seen 2k+ comments nor posts about other shootings on HN https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42370622 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42370622 (also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448899 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448899 was even more discussed, but it was a stabbing)
• johnisgood 1y ago
  > If he were still alive, he would be writing and speaking about how such violence is unfortunate but ultimately acceptable— even necessary— to "preserve our freedoms" He would have really advocated for violence, or school shootings? That seems odd. It is way different from "gun deaths are worth having the 2nd amendment".
  • croes 1y ago
    Did he question the 2nd amendment beacuse of school shootings? If not then school shooting deaths are part of his costs of his 2nd amendment defense.
    • johnisgood 1y ago
      I should have known better than to reply under this submission. HN is no different from Twitter or Instagram when it comes to anything political. My question was not answered, and my comment was ignored. Good job for everyone here for not being able to hold a rational, non-heated conversation.
      • Nervhq 1y ago
        Oh yeah man these guys are all leftwing brainwashed idiots. Never forget
      • croes 1y ago
        The implicit part of your question was answered. I just ignored the part where you misparaphrased parent. He didn't say Kirk advocated violence but that he was indifferent towards it in favor of the 2nd amendment. Isn't it interesting how a pro-lifer like Kirk didn't care that much about lives if it's about gun ownership? Seems like it's harder to get a driver's license than a gun.
        • johnisgood 1y ago
          > Seems like it's harder to get a driver's license than a gun. I do not think that he was against regulation, and keep in mind that criminals inherently do not care about gun laws or regulation.
• diogenescynic 1y ago
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  • miffy900 1y ago
    > Charlie Kirk is hardly responsible for the 2nd amendment so trying to blame him for public shootings seems grossly unfair. So anyone who believes in the 2nd amendment deserves to be gunned down in public? Where does this end? Please re-read the post you replied to; literally no one was blaming Kirk for public shootings happening. They were mentioning that Kirk has previously remarked about how shootings are ultimately a necessary trade-off for 2A rights. Seriously, you might also want to read the Newsweek article that the OP linked to; Kirk is quoted: > "You will never live in a society when you have an armed citizenry and you won't have a single gun death," Kirk said at a Turning Point USA Faith event on Wednesday, as reported by Media Matters for America. "That is nonsense. It's drivel. But I am—I think it's worth it. "I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational. Nobody talks like this. They live in a complete alternate universe." Kirk SAID THIS; there's video of him saying this as well; I had to double check this myself as, putting aside the irony of his own death, how can anyone rationalise this way? Let alone say it out loud? I never heard of this guy before now and the more I read about him, the more I am astounded in the worst possibly ways. > The left really needs to get a grip and look in the mirror. I have seen way too many 'normal' democrats mocking his death and implying it was justified because he was a 2nd amendment supporter. So are many of your friends, relatively, coworkers. When they see you express that opinion, we realize you're a sociopath and you're the fascist who thinks anyone who disagrees deserves death. You are now ranting against a made-up argument that literally NO ONE made, but you.
    • diogenescynic 1y ago
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      • ModernMech 1y ago
        Maddow advocates for universal healthcare. If we get universal healthcare and she dies because she lost private healthcare, that would be deeply ironic and everyone should point that out upon her death, throwing all her words supporting universal healthcare back at her ghost. I would 100% support that. > The left has become so unhinged that they don't even see republicans as human and don't value their deaths/lives. Across the left I see calls for gun control. If the left had their way, gun violence wouldn't be the problem that it is in America. The left is just sick of burying dead children with holes in them, there's not sympathy left for literally anyone else, especially Kirk, who advocated for this to continue happening. Thoughts and prayers, whatever. Can we do gun control now? No? Then what are we even talking about, we'll just be here again soon enough. > This is what 10+ years of calling republicans Nazis does... eventually some mentally ill people are going to take it seriously and start killing people. Unlike the rest of us, you seem to know who the killer was and why he did what he did. At this stage it's just as likely Kirk was shot by a disillusioned fan based on his reaction to the Epstein files, per Laura Loomer's post. Actually, a priori it's far more likely seeing as the statistics show rightwing shooters are far more frequent than leftwing shooters. So calling out "Nazi rhetoric" as the culprit is premature.
• ChrisRR 1y ago
  When is there not a school shooting?
  • Bost 1y ago
    Good point. What a great society it must be, where school shooting has become normality - a part of everyday experience.
• xtracto 1y ago
  I'm very late to this thread, because I just didn't have anything I felt was valuable. But now i have. At first I also had thr reaction of thinking "he asked for it" , and all that schadenfreude feeling. However, now I think it was a great loss and hope the killer gets the whole extent of the law. See, in a society that is tending more and more to the extremes, polarization and radicalism, we NEED people to TALK. Being from outside of the US, I don't know the ideas this guy was spewing; However, from what I've read, what he did was basically talking and debate. We need that. We need to be open to talk ideas, even if we dont agree. Where are we when someone who speaks his mind gets killed for that? I am socialist and anti-US-imperialism in general, but I tend to frequent r/conservative and r/ccw and even patriots.win subteddits. Because im interested in a different point of view. I get sad that most posts in r/conservative block externals, as I would love to interact in some of the posts. But... after this guys assassination... I dont blame them. People should feel safe to talk and discuss their ideas. I'm to stupid to be able to debate against this guy, or the other guy.that speaks too fast and always looks angry (anti abortion American dude). But ... why isn't someone smarter and with opposing views debating them?. We need it.
  • Forgeties79 1y ago
    I don’t disagree with your point overall but the sad reality is that Charlie Kirk was not there to have a discussion. He went around trolling people and provoking big responses at universities so he could farm it out on social media. A huge part of his income was being a troll. That does not mean he deserved to die. He didn’t. But he did not die undergoing some noble endeavor or engaging in free speech in some profoundly brave way.
    • xtracto 1y ago
      But that's my point. Where is the guy with the opposing view and sharp tongue that's able to talk back to him? The fact that its monetized is good. Talking should be attractive to people. I'm all in favor of that.
      • Forgeties79 1y ago